Changing the face (and LOOK!) of TB's in the years to come!

[TrueColours]

Maybe I should get his papers corrected. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!

Well - I just sent in copies of Pearlescent's JC papers along with her DNA test results and have requested that she gets reclassified as "bay" and not palomino

Nightlight WAS registered as dark bay/brown - I spoke to the JC today and also sent in yet again her DNA test results and asked them to change her to black. We'll see what happens there ...

I think Kim that you will need to send in DNA test results and foal pictures (do you have some of him?) showing the chestnut base coat colour and request a change in his description as well

Good luck - I'll let you know how I make out as well

[Desert Oasis Sporthorses]

Donna: I do not have foal pix of him, but maybe I can get some. I will get hold of Lisa at JC and see if she can help with reclassifying him or at least getting it to where I can put chestnut ears. I will keep you posted. Thanks for your help. Kim

[reedhill]

OK, I'M A SIMPLETON AT HEART!

IF THE TB INDUSTRY IS SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

RACING, BREEDING, BETTING, AND SELLING........SURELY THEY COULD

CATCH ON TO TO WHAT EVERYOTHER LARGE REGISTRY HAS ALREADY

LAID OUT GUIDELINES FOR IN GREAT DETAIL..........JC AND APHA CAN

HAVE A MEETING WITH VOLUNTEER COLOR BREEDERS AND REGULAR

SOLID BREEDERS, AND VOTE ON HOW THE REGISTRY NEEDS TO MAP

OUT ADDING COLOR PREFERENCES AND SABINO OR OVERO

MARKINGS, AND ADD A PLACE TO CHARGE THE BREEDER FOR THE

COLOR TESTS NEEDED TO PROVE THE PATTERN ON THE APPLICATION

OR ONLINE ...............EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR TB ID'D EASILY

THESE DAYS, THE JC SHOULD BE

EMBARRASED CAUSING ANY FRICTION FROM KEEPING THIS FROM

HAPPENING. IMO...........THEY SHOULD WELCOME A GROUP OF

BREEDERS TO BE ONLY TOO HAPPY TO HELP THIS HAPPEN, THEY ARE A

HECK OF A LOT EASIER TO ID BASED ON COLOR THAN ALL THE BAYS,

AND CHESTNUTS OUT THERE, DON'T YA THINK

[TrueColours]

Amen Reedhill ...

Sue - here is another example for you where the wrong registration colour caused problems

I took my then 2 year old palomino colt - Lookspalominotome - to Fort Erie race track to start his race career. That was before the JC allowed palomino in as a colour so he had "chestnut" on his papers. This would have been in 2000, so palomino TB's were a real rarity still and one at the track was unheard of

I forgot to bring the papers with me to leave with the stewards but promised when I came back in 2 days time, I'd bring them then

The trainer phoned me the next day and said everyone was in an uproar and the stewards were pissed off and wanted the papers NOW!!! He was going to be in the general area later that day - could he stop in and pick them up. No problem.

he takes one look at them and goes white and says "Donna - is this a joke or what? The papers say chestnut, he's a palomino. What are you trying to do to me? The stewards will flip out when they see what is written on these papers and it isnt palomino"

Apparently there was a stall shortage, the other trainers complained that a "pony horse" got a stall and their TB's didnt and on and on it went

I got called into the stewards office and they were not happy as they waved the papers at me. They again asked if this was a joke or a publicity stunt of some description and said they were personally going to pull blood on my colt and send it in for testing and if the tests showed that the blood didnt match, I was going to have to pay for the tests, I was going to be fined, etc, etc and I told them to go ahead. I had nothing to hide ...

So again in this case, the wrong colour designation very much caused problems for a lot of people ...

[pfrsue]

I took my then 2 year old palomino colt - Lookspalominotome

Holy cow, the name on his papers wasn't a dead giveaway? Did those particular stewards get their credentials out of a box of cracker jacks or what?! 2000 wasn't exactly the dark ages!

Thanks for filling me in with that solid empirical evidence, TC. I hope you didn't think I was making light of the problems color breeders face. That's the last thing I want to do!

[TrueColours]

Holy cow, the name on his papers wasn't a dead giveaway?

One would think so wouldnt one?!

The other that I personally had was with the AQHA registrations as well - again - when Guaranteed Gold was still designated as a chestnut on HIS papers, before the JC allowed them to be changed to palomino. When bred to non dilute AQHA mares and out pops a palomino or buckskin, the AQHA said "its genetically impossible to produce a palomino or buckskin from mating a chestnut sire to a bay dam" (and they are right - it is! ) so we then had to produce photographs, give them permission to access DNA samples, etc on GG. Every year it was the same until the JC allowed palomino in as a colour choice

Oh I know you werent making light of the issues at all. Its just over the years as situation upon situation arose, you'd shake your head and say "You know if they ONLY allowed the correct colours in, I wouldnt now need to spend 30-60 minutes gathering this "evidence" to give to yet another association or person to prove this really ISNT a grey or bay or whatever they decide to call it this time!" It just wears thin after awhile to be honest. If they identified the problem and corrected it the first time, thats one thing, but to allow this stupidity to carry on year after year because "as everyone knows there are NO buckskin TB's! " has gotten very very old ...

[color]

Every Cremello should now be able to be what he/she is on their papers. I would not send in my papers to have it change to Palomino instead of Cremello.

Since the International Convention has decided to now agree on Cremello in addition to Palomino, why would the JC in USA not have to follow this like they did have to follow with the Palomino. I would go for it an insist!!!

But so far would not send in papers of other dilutes until the right color has been fight for here in Europe and the next International Convention has it on their table to agree and vote for it.

[Evenheaven]

This situation reminds me of the stories Jerry Tyler tells me about when Puchilingui was registered with the JC as a grey or roan when he clearly is not a grey or roan!

[TrueColours]

This situation reminds me of the stories Jerry Tyler tells me about when Puchilingui was registered with the JC as a grey or roan when he clearly is not a grey or roan!

Exactly. And Jerry spent a great deal of time and money getting that idiotic situation corrected as well ...

[Jorge]

Well, I think that these 5 pages of discussion points out to one rock solid important conclusion: we must enthusiastically back that all Thoroughbred coat colors be focused through their DNA genotypes, rather than by their phenotypes.

Okay, after putting that cornerstone, let’s now establish the terminologies to be applied.
What about these nomenclatures? Please feel free to suggest or change the following head start list:

01. WHITE --
02. ROAN --
03. GRAY --
04. SILVER-DAPPLE --
05. CREMELLO --
06. PALOMINO --
07. SORREL --
08. CHESTNUT --
09. CHAMPAGNE --
10. LIVER-CHESTNUT--
11. PERLINO --
12. BUCKSKIN --
13. DUN --
14. RED-DUN --
15. BAY --
16. DARK-BAY --
17. DARK-BROWN --
18. GRULLA --
19. BLACK --
20. PINTO --
21. OVERO --
22. TOBIANO --
23. APPALOOSA BLANKET --
24. APPALOOSA LEOPARD --

(p.s. Posted from http://www.geocities.com/thoroughbredpr ... guages.htm )

[RiddleMeThis]

Since we are talking about TBs only I have eliminated the ones I don't feel are necessary for the breed.
I eliminated sorrel, and liver chestnut because they are genetically the same as chestnut. I have left dark bay and bay separate because there is now a "test" for dark bay (though the call it brown ) and it APPEARS to be genetically different from regular bay. I eliminated "pinto" because we have other classifications that already cover it. Ones in bold are the colors I have added

05. CREMELLO --
06. PALOMINO --
08. CHESTNUT --
11. PERLINO --
12. BUCKSKIN --
15. BAY --
16. DARK-BAY --
19. BLACK --
Smoky Black
Smoky Cream

I think those above should be the only BASE colors allowed. However I think we should be adding a sub category next to each base color. Those sub categories should be

1. Sabino
2. Gray
3. White
4. Frame Overo [/b]

[reedhill]

THANK YOU JORGE

01. WHITE
02. ROAN
03. GRAY
04. SILVER-DAPPLE .......no
05. CREMELLO
06. PALOMINO
07. SORREL
08. CHESTNUT
09. CHAMPAGNE ......... no (I wish)
10. LIVER-CHESTNUT
11. PERLINO
12. BUCKSKIN
13. DUN .......... no
14. RED-DUN ......... no
15. BAY
16. DARK-BAY ........... no (3. good grief)
17. DARK-BROWN
18. GRULLA ........... no
19. BLACK
20. PINTO .......... no
21. OVERO ........... no
22. TOBIANO .......... no
23. APPALOOSA BLANKET .......... no
24. APPALOOSA LEOPARD ......... no

ADD: SMOKEY BLACK

SUB CATAGORY: SABINO and FRAME OVERO

[SouthernStar]

01. WHITE --
02. ROAN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
03. GRAY --
04. SILVER-DAPPLE -- Doesn't exist in TB's
05. CREMELLO --
06. PALOMINO --
07. SORREL -- Doesn't exist in TB's is Chestnut
08. CHESTNUT --
09. CHAMPAGNE -- Doesn't exist in TB's
10. LIVER-CHESTNUT-- Not needed
11. PERLINO --
12. BUCKSKIN --
13. DUN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
14. RED-DUN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
15. BAY --
16. DARK-BAY -- Not needed
17. DARK-BROWN -- Doesn't exist in TB's
18. GRULLA -- Doesn't exist in TB's
19. BLACK --
20. PINTO --
21. OVERO --
22. TOBIANO -- Doesn't exist in TB's
23. APPALOOSA BLANKET -- Doesn't exist in TB's
24. APPALOOSA LEOPARD -- Doesn't exist in TB's
25. SMOKY BLACK
26. SMOKY CREAM

[SouthernStar]

01. WHITE --
03. GRAY -- not certain this qualifies as a color or a modifier
03. CHESTNUT--
04. PALOMINO--
05. CREMELLO --
06. BAY--
12. BUCKSKIN --
08. PERLINO--
09. BLACK--
10. SMOKY BLACK--
11. SMOKY CREAM--

PATTERNS

01. FRAME OVERO
02. SABINO
03. RABICANO

[color]

1. Chestnut
2. Black
3. Bay
4. Black Bay

5. Palomino
6. Buckskin
7. Smoky Black
8. Cremello
9. Perlino
10. Smoky Cream

These are the COLORS.

Then for GREY and the PATTERNS put up f.e.

Chestnut - will go grey

Chestnut - Sabino or maximum Sabino if white

Chestnut - Frame Overo

Chestnut - Roan (it does exist)

Chestnut - Splash

Chestnut - Rabicano