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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Thanks Donna for bringing up this issue.

When I ponder on what it takes to a rare color to become mainstream it is important to relate to the trajectory once followed by the gray coat color.

The gray coat color was among the founders of the Thoroughbred breed but it took nearly 200 years until the appearance of a genuine top notch talented runner like champion The Tetrarch (gray H 1911) in order to catapult his phenotype into common spotlight, regardless of its coat color.

Even when this first echelon was achieved, this alone was not sufficient. It was necessary to wait until the appearance of a prepotent gray lineage of the caliber of Mahmoud (gray horse 1933) to really see effervescence on the gray color ---thanks to the many gray broodmares he produced. A couple of generations later, many good gray horses, mainly coming via good gray broodmares began tilting the scale in favor of the appearance of extraordinary gray champions like the ones we are accustomed seeing today. If you want to verify what I am saying, just go to the historical racing charts of the K-P-B participants and you will see a constant increase of so-so grays, then excellent ones, and their achievements, decade by decade. This comes as no surprise.

It is my opinion that in order for the whites, perlinos, and cremellos, to achieve top-notch standing, regardless of their color, we have to pinpoint and promote their exposure towards racing careers. Seeking to link our rare colored Thoroughbreds to the best racing lineages of the world and hoping for a Mahmoud factor to appear.

Jumping, dressage and other similar careers are really quite meritorious activities which we all should encourage with kind enthusiasm, because it is an important and necessary life support medicine. But for the sake of exponentially blossoming the endeavors of coat color breeding, in my opinion there is no shortcut but to aim directly to the top of the racing pyramid (namely, successful racing careers) and from there disseminate through the air all your phenotypical seeds (diseminate these rare coat colors) and then every step of the pyramid (all the different horse activities) will be influenced by these colors and the "maize" will grow..

Right now there is a living example that proves my point. It is the white filly YUKICHAN, recent winner of a Grade 2 Oaks race in Japan. Yukichan is a daughter of Shirayukihime, an unexpected white daughter of the perennial top-notch Japanese stallion, Sunday Silence. Since Shirayukihime was reagally bred from a meritorious racing family, she was sent to another reagally bred sire and track record holder named Kurofune to be bred. The produce was YUKICHAN. You can be sure that YUKICHAN will visit all the best breeding sheds in her country and most probably, if properly guided, her breeding influence will remain available and ready to extend for future generation. Not all our white Thoroughbreds are so blessed, but there is a good chance that YUKICHAN will promote her coat color and assist the rest of all white Thoroughbreds in exponential terms. But only God knows.

In short rare coat colors need to achieve 3 steps:

01. The appearance of an unusually good talented runner
02. The subsequent appearance of a profilic broodmare sire coming from the cited talented runner
03. The exponential appearance of many talented runners (future sires) coming from the daughters and descendants of the prolific broodmare sire.

In the meantime, we are all very proud of the extraordinary efforts breeders like you and many others are devoting to the production of rare phenotyped Thoroughbreds. Right now, we are very fortunate to witness the existance of some of the finest examples you and others are producing.


(p.s. Go Faux Finish! and go for the rest of all those very fine boulervardiers! :D :D :D )



A very interesting recently article on The Tetrarch and the gray color:

Shades of Gray

by Kellie Reilly


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
[D )



A very interesting recently article on The Tetrarch and the gray color:

Shades of Gray
by Kellie Reilly
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editoria ... i?id=24116


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:23 am 
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Thanks for posting the article.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:33 am 
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Here is a very interesting gray lineage still available to Thoroughbred breeders thanks to other disciplines apart from Thoroughbred racing.
See below:
LAST NEWS (gray H 1994) http://www.pedigreequery.com/last+news


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:10 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Thanks Donna for bringing up this issue.

When I ponder on what it takes to a rare color to become mainstream it is important to relate to the trajectory once followed by the gray coat color.

The gray coat color was among the founders of the Thoroughbred breed but it took nearly 200 years until the appearance of a genuine top notch talented runner like champion The Tetrarch (gray H 1911) in order to catapult his phenotype into common spotlight, regardless of its coat color.

Even when this first echelon was achieved, this alone was not sufficient. It was necessary to wait until the appearance of a prepotent gray lineage of the caliber of Mahmoud (gray horse 1933) to really see effervescence on the gray color ---thanks to the many gray broodmares he produced. A couple of generations later, many good gray horses, mainly coming via good gray broodmares began tilting the scale in favor of the appearance of extraordinary gray champions like the ones we are accustomed seeing today. If you want to verify what I am saying, just go to the historical racing charts of the K-P-B participants and you will see a constant increase of so-so grays, then excellent ones, and their achievements, decade by decade. This comes as no surprise.

It is my opinion that in order for the whites, perlinos, and cremellos, to achieve top-notch standing, regardless of their color, we have to pinpoint and promote their exposure towards racing careers. Seeking to link our rare colored Thoroughbreds to the best racing lineages of the world and hoping for a Mahmoud factor to appear.

Jumping, dressage and other similar careers are really quite meritorious activities which we all should encourage with kind enthusiasm, because it is an important and necessary life support medicine. But for the sake of exponentially blossoming the endeavors of coat color breeding, in my opinion there is no shortcut but to aim directly to the top of the racing pyramid (namely, successful racing careers) and from there disseminate through the air all your phenotypical seeds (diseminate these rare coat colors) and then every step of the pyramid (all the different horse activities) will be influenced by these colors and the "maize" will grow..

Right now there is a living example that proves my point. It is the white filly YUKICHAN, recent winner of a Grade 2 Oaks race in Japan. Yukichan is a daughter of Shirayukihime, an unexpected white daughter of the perennial top-notch Japanese stallion, Sunday Silence. Since Shirayukihime was reagally bred from a meritorious racing family, she was sent to another reagally bred sire and track record holder named Kurofune to be bred. The produce was YUKICHAN. You can be sure that YUKICHAN will visit all the best breeding sheds in her country and most probably, if properly guided, her breeding influence will remain available and ready to extend for future generation. Not all our white Thoroughbreds are so blessed, but there is a good chance that YUKICHAN will promote her coat color and assist the rest of all white Thoroughbreds in exponential terms. But only God knows.

In short rare coat colors need to achieve 3 steps:

01. The appearance of an unusually good talented runner
02. The subsequent appearance of a profilic broodmare sire coming from the cited talented runner
03. The exponential appearance of many talented runners (future sires) coming from the daughters and descendants of the prolific broodmare sire.

In the meantime, we are all very proud of the extraordinary efforts breeders like you and many others are devoting to the production of rare phenotyped Thoroughbreds. Right now, we are very fortunate to witness the existance of some of the finest examples you and others are producing.


(p.s. Go Faux Finish! and go for the rest of all those very fine boulervardiers! :D :D :D )


The same full circle that today has exponentially materialized with Tapit (present) and The Tetrarch (past), sooner than later will be repeated again with white Thoroughbreds. These days, the number of white Thoroughbreds has increased exponentially as to expect such a boom.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:12 am 
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xfactor fan wrote:
Someone may have to breakdown the barrier for sporthorses first. There seems to be the feeling that sporthorse breeding lines don't make good racehorses.

Any out there breeding speed sires to sporthorse mares and racing the offspring?

I bred my white Sporthorse TB to the race stallion Medallist this year. her dam was a race mare I got from George Bravo, so only one generation off the track. Waiting for March to see what color I get!!
http://s82.photobucket.com/user/camohn0 ... sort=3&o=0

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Last edited by camohn on Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:06 am 
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Jorge wrote:
Let me add an additional comment on the merits of The Tetrarch that surely helped him boost his achievements on the track. This may help us apply the example towards whites, cremellos and perlinos.

Although his gray sire, Roi Herode, was a good winner, it was the talented Classic winner, Bona Vista, his broodmare sire, the one who provided The Tetrarch with the extraordinary kick to excel the way he did, winning all his 7 lifetime races. In other words, The Tetrarch's link with a proven racing broodmare lineage helped him catapult his coat color by extension towards sucess.

The same happened with Mahmoud who was a Classic winner himself in track record time (stood for 4 decades!) but who was the grandson of Gainsborough, an excellent sire and broodmare sire. Again, a decent gray pedigree being enhanced by a superior broodmare sire. Once Mahmoud was there with his myriad of good prolific daughters, it was a matter of a short time for the good gray superior horses to appear and go with their color to disseminate gray-ness around the world.

Extrapolating with white Thoroughbreds, note that some of the places where these white Thoroughbreds are excelling (places like Japan and Australia) their interest is basically focused on running their horses rather than showing them on other disciplines. This has an advantage and a disadvantage (reason for which I applaud the efforts of our coat color breeders to maintain our rare coat colors alive).

The advantage is that they are forced to produce talented runners in order to survive and they do. The disadvantage is that if you don't have success at the track, such coat color is doomed for indifference and extintion. The best known example of the latter is the struggling status being suffered by the (alleged genuine genotypical) "roans" descending from the "sui-generis" brindle Thoroughbred, recently deceased, Catch A Bird.

Hope this additional comments may give a better picture and rationale to apply.


a bit on the classic winner comment and sport versus race horses. There is SOME correlation. On one hand, if horse has the slows it may make a perfectly good jumper. No correlation there at all. However, for basic confo type of the sprinter versus classic distance horse there is. The sprinter types do tend to be more compact, and with a few exceptions the dragster type confo that looks like a QH and runs like a QH does not generally lend itself well to sport horses. The successful sport horse types do tend to come from your more classic distance or better yet even longer race types. Turf horses in particular....but those are really hard to find now....both the endurance and turf horses. Most race cards are written for sprinters and horses are being bred to that purpose.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:16 am 
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SouthernStar wrote:
Case or Problem #1:
Since "most" ofthese horses are maximum sabino's and actually have a base color that is not white...why not register the horse as it's base color and then the white markings. Many of the foals that I have seen listed lately as white are not what i would consider true white's so it's confusing.

Case or Problem #2:
I can see why the JC is reluctant to list these unusual colors. Heck they can't even get the roan part straight :roll:
I was wondering what happened with buckskin color as they did change palomino. I figured there might be some presure to correct bay to buckskin after you imported one to Germany.


if the horse is a true white ( I have one) it should be registered as white because when you take a horse somewhere (be it the track, a show etc) and the papers (registration or coggins) say chestnut and the horse in front of them looks white it raises all kinds of problems that the papers don't match the horse. Now from a genetic standpoint I would even be OK with the proper base color being used. When I went to register my chestnut based white tb the JC wanted to make her gray. Now that is SO wrong. She has no gray parents. ( FWIW she was registered as white in the end).

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