Query for Dilutes Breeders (CHAMPAGNE TBs)

Talk about equine color, markings, genetics, etc. Post pictures of flashy Thoroughbreds!

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xfactor fan
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Postby xfactor fan » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:45 am

I'm on the Champagne doesn't exist in the TB gene pool side of the equation. BUT if it did exist, and given the color options of TB registration, presented with a funny mouse colored greyish horse, it would have been registered as a grey.


Take a look at Gray Star:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/gray+star2

There's a pretty good photo posted. He's a gray that didn't dapple, and turned a uniform shade of gray.


A link to classic champagne, which is champagne on a black coat.

http://www.ichregistry.com/classic.htm

Presented with this color in a young horse, I'm pretty sure that the Jockey Club would registers this color as gray.

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RiddleMeThis
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Postby RiddleMeThis » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:43 am

xfactor fan wrote:Presented with this color in a young horse, I'm pretty sure that the Jockey Club would registers this color as gray.
(Not completely directed at you just why I dont think it exists)Until red flags start popping up like crazy when this "gray" starts popping out "palominos and buckskins."

Most thoroughbreds are bred to race. If we had a champagne and it turned up on a track (and wasnt a classic) there would be a huge uproar like their is every time a palomino or a white horse goes to the track. It wouldnt be missed. SOMEONE would notice it.

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Postby xfactor fan » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:42 am

Did you take a look at the Gigi Nutter site about Glitter Please? She was contacted by the farm manager when he was a yearling, (my guess is when he lost his foal coat and turned palomino) as a dressage prospect not a racing prospect.

The farm manager diverted the odd color foal to another career. How many times has this been played out? Foals of the wrong color given away, or simply knocked on the head? But in any event being removed from the gene pool.

I suspect that mares that throw odd colored foals would also be given away or in some way removed from the gene pool.

Genetic testing has made a huge difference in accepting odd colored TB's, something that breeders in the past didn't have.

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RiddleMeThis
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Postby RiddleMeThis » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:32 pm

xfactor fan wrote:Did you take a look at the Gigi Nutter site about Glitter Please? She was contacted by the farm manager when he was a yearling, (my guess is when he lost his foal coat and turned palomino) as a dressage prospect not a racing prospect.

The farm manager diverted the odd color foal to another career. How many times has this been played out? Foals of the wrong color given away, or simply knocked on the head? But in any event being removed from the gene pool.

I suspect that mares that throw odd colored foals would also be given away or in some way removed from the gene pool.

Genetic testing has made a huge difference in accepting odd colored TB's, something that breeders in the past didn't have.


Yes, but now they are apparent. Now they are out there for the world to see.

If someone had a champagne TB it would sell for lots of money to a color breeder. You wouldnt hide that in the back of the woodpile especially not now.

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Postby reedhill » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:51 pm

If someone had a champagne TB it would sell for lots of money to a color breeder. You wouldnt hide that in the back of the woodpile especially not now.[/quote]

The timing of the CHAM mare was 3-4 years ago I think, the one I saw on CANTER. Either the CANTER folks or the owner new something about the color, because someone had it listed on there that way. Back then I don't even think I knew what the color was, but that is was beautiful. It easily could have been sold and bought by nuetral parties, that didn't think anything of it.

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Jorge
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Postby Jorge » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:57 pm

I posed my rationale based on one of the last paragraphs I read in the following article:

http://www.chboa.com/research/ahorseofa ... color.html

There, go to the last paragraph at the end of the article and count backwards 4 paragraphs. That paragraph reads: "I was left with instructions to keep up the documentation, try breeding to sorrels, chestnuts, palomino and cremellos, and to keep them informed when the foals came".

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Jorge
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Postby Jorge » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:09 pm

Hmmm, interesting head start link to champagne color Quarter Horses:

http://www.snakewaterfarms.com/Our%20Stallions.htm
http://www.snakewaterfarms.com/

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Postby RiddleMeThis » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:29 pm

Jorge wrote:I posed my rationale based on one of the last paragraphs I read in the following article:

http://www.chboa.com/research/ahorseofa ... color.html
That article is now 10 years old. I believe she was told to keep records of what her stallion produced so that they could use it for research to find the gene causing it.

They have since found the gene and there is now a test for it.

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Jorge
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Postby Jorge » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:33 pm

Acknowledge your posting.

Returning to the possibility of a champagne Thoroughbred, I noticed that
in Quarter Horses the champagne color is related, at least, to the strain of Take Care O Neall via:

SW CHAMPAGNE ARTIST: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sw+champagne+artist

and to the strain of Lady Dun Dowdy via:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ms+dowdy+doc+bars

No apparent link to a close Thoroughbred ancestor, but wait, if you go far enough you will find Bend d'Or. Hmmm, perhaps the color is not coming directly from him, but who knows if he is the other side of the contributing coin.

Hmmm, this is interesting!

(p.s. Don't miss to check these QH names:

01. SW TAKE CARE TOO
02. MS DOWDY DOC BARS
03. SW CHAMPAGNE ARTIST
04 SW CHAMPAGNE CLASS )

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Postby reedhill » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:05 pm

Returning to the possibility of a champagne Thoroughbred, I noticed that
in Quarter Horses the champagne color is related, at least, to the strain of Take Care O Neall via:

Not far enough back Jorge, see this mare much further back in his pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gracie+buck2 1946.

reedhill
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Postby reedhill » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:10 pm

and to the strain of Lady Dun Dowdy via:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ms+dowdy+doc+bars

ok, and here, it lists one more gener. back from her:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/lady+dun+dowdy 1965

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Postby reedhill » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:18 pm

TRIANGLE LADY TEN M, QUARTER HORSE, 1930 (champagne)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/triangle+lady+ten

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Postby reedhill » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:30 pm

SW TAKE CARE TOO ..............ok ya'll look at this!
Back in the padigree is recorded this mare, check out her pedigree!
A different breed than QH, BUT Morgan! Is that not cool!
TRIANGLE LADY TEN M, QUARTER HORSE, 1930
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/triangle+lady+ten

I wonder what the wild Mustangs that were selected and added to the stock of QH's contributed to the Champagne color? I'd bet money they did!

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Postby reedhill » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:51 pm

JEWELS RUSTY ANN M, QUARTER HORSE, 1946
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jewels+rusty+ann

When you look at the above mare, look at the sire side all the way back at the mare named MANDY 1898.........on her damside is a stallion is named: YELLOW MISSOURI HORSE..........could that mean a " Missouri Fox Trotter"? Champanes are rare in that breed too, but they are there.

What do you all think? It looks like this elusive color in the QH breed could in fact be coming from other breeds all together when registration for QH's was an open registry?

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Jorge
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Postby Jorge » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:12 pm

For the record:

The champagne horse named: “SW TAKE CARE TOO” ( http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sw+take+care+too )

descends from TAKE CARE O NEALL
( http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/take+care+o+neall )

then from THREE BARS
( http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/three+bars )

then from PERCENTAGE
( http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/percentage )

and there you see a good bunch of telltelling Thoroughbred names.