This is a case of people changing the horse to show what the horse truly was. To correct AQHAs past and current failure.Linda_d wrote:This is a case of somebody changing historical records based on their own prejudices.
Query for Dilutes Breeders (CHAMPAGNE TBs)
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, Jorge, Sunday Silence
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RiddleMeThis
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I've seen it written, registered as palomino.........but was actually an a gold champagne. Maybe some people that changed them found good color photos of the horse, and changed them based on appearence?
Almost makes breeders want to preserve extra root bulbs of their stock somehow........because as science moves forward, someone may find out in the future that a certain color horse is far more trainable than another if they have a certain gene. If I were older, rich, and ready, I could have my old deceased breeding stock tested long after they were gone.
Maybe in the future scientists will find that the GYPSY VANNER'S that sport those long goat beards on their chins, actually did come from being crossed with a goat way back! ..........LOL
LOL just teasing, don't anyone take offense. 
Almost makes breeders want to preserve extra root bulbs of their stock somehow........because as science moves forward, someone may find out in the future that a certain color horse is far more trainable than another if they have a certain gene. If I were older, rich, and ready, I could have my old deceased breeding stock tested long after they were gone.
Maybe in the future scientists will find that the GYPSY VANNER'S that sport those long goat beards on their chins, actually did come from being crossed with a goat way back! ..........LOL
LOL just teasing, don't anyone take offense. 
Until then, enjoy the following references:
COUGARAND (Gold Champagne [reg as pal.] H): http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cougarand2 Gorgeous!
AWESOME COUGARAND:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/awesome+cougarand
COUGARAND (Gold Champagne [reg as pal.] H): http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cougarand2 Gorgeous!
AWESOME COUGARAND:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/awesome+cougarand
Personally I don't think any amount of TB has any contributing color genetics in regard to the breeds that have champagne in them. Maybe there is a TB way back in a foundation QH or Paint, but in my opinion they won't hold any wt. on a modern champagne having it's metalic color.
Do I think I saw a champagne TB mare on one of the canter sites, definately. Still looking into taht.
I truely believe the champagne color traces back to the Mustangs that ran between the US and Mexico. We all know the Mustangs have had every breed and color under the sun turned out with them. So when the American registries formed and some of the breeding stock was selected from the best Mustangs...........the champagne gene derived from them.
I certainly don't think the champagne color was imported. I'd say those genes have the "MADE IN THE USA" stamp on them.
Do I think I saw a champagne TB mare on one of the canter sites, definately. Still looking into taht.
I truely believe the champagne color traces back to the Mustangs that ran between the US and Mexico. We all know the Mustangs have had every breed and color under the sun turned out with them. So when the American registries formed and some of the breeding stock was selected from the best Mustangs...........the champagne gene derived from them.
I certainly don't think the champagne color was imported. I'd say those genes have the "MADE IN THE USA" stamp on them.
Don't miss to browse these tables:
http://www.ichregistry.com/identification.htm
http://www.ichregistry.com/colors.htm
http://www.ichregistry.com/identification.htm
http://www.ichregistry.com/colors.htm
Until a real champagne Thoroughbred appears, enjoy the following reference:
http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/h ... .html?sr=1
http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/h ... .html?sr=1
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xfactor fan
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I don't know if the champagne gene originated in the New World. There are historical references to Isabella's a light shade of palomino that might very well be cream + champagne.
There is also something on the Champagne website about the "Hanoverian Creams" where some of them were cream colored and others a grey. Which sounds very much like the Champagne gene at work.
Jorge, in your research have you ever run across the black + champagne? They are a very distinctive solid gray. Given how frequent black is in the TB gene pool, looking for this color may be more productive than trying to spot the red based horses.
To be honest, I don't think it exists in the TB's. And of course having said this, 12 of the will show up tomorrow.
The one that may very well be lurking in the gene pool is pearl. That might be well worth investigating.
There is also something on the Champagne website about the "Hanoverian Creams" where some of them were cream colored and others a grey. Which sounds very much like the Champagne gene at work.
Jorge, in your research have you ever run across the black + champagne? They are a very distinctive solid gray. Given how frequent black is in the TB gene pool, looking for this color may be more productive than trying to spot the red based horses.
To be honest, I don't think it exists in the TB's. And of course having said this, 12 of the will show up tomorrow.
The one that may very well be lurking in the gene pool is pearl. That might be well worth investigating.
The problem we always encounter when we are analyzing rare colored cropout equines is trying then to define the genotype of the parent or parents who threw that particular cropout specimen. It happened with "whites" (not much of a mystery now) but still occurrs with the origin of the palominos, buckskins and may happen with the champagnes too (all tones included).
My answer to your question: I really don't know. But I just try to be an avid observer and I try not be too strict with color theories. First, I try to pinpoint a Thoroughbred case, then I try to open my mind to endless posibilities. In synthesis perhaps the champagne gene exists among Thoroughbreds but it is better no to try to predict its fashion or version for the sake of any theory. Just let it be. Take for example the genuine "roan" color. If I were to analyze it with theories I would have to conclude that it is impossible for a Thoroughbred to be "roan" because the roan gene cannot skip generations. But then, what can I do with the roan-looking descendants of Catch A Bird like Slip Catch, Red Noble, Odd Colours?
Perplexing right?
My answer to your question: I really don't know. But I just try to be an avid observer and I try not be too strict with color theories. First, I try to pinpoint a Thoroughbred case, then I try to open my mind to endless posibilities. In synthesis perhaps the champagne gene exists among Thoroughbreds but it is better no to try to predict its fashion or version for the sake of any theory. Just let it be. Take for example the genuine "roan" color. If I were to analyze it with theories I would have to conclude that it is impossible for a Thoroughbred to be "roan" because the roan gene cannot skip generations. But then, what can I do with the roan-looking descendants of Catch A Bird like Slip Catch, Red Noble, Odd Colours?
Perplexing right?
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RiddleMeThis
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Thought I would post an updated picture of this horsereedhill wrote:http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-127061
No ordinary chestnut here, looks like champagne to me in a way.
Just goes to show, unless we are God, we DON'T know what horses in the past have "mutated" or "evolved" into newly recognized colors. I think his color is unique.
Looks to me this gelding is compatible with being a sabino.
Spoiled Child http://www.pedigreequery.com/spoiled+child
Spoiled Child http://www.pedigreequery.com/spoiled+child
Jorge wrote:Until then, enjoy the following references:
COUGARAND (Gold Champagne [reg as pal.] H): http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cougarand2 Gorgeous!
AWESOME COUGARAND:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/awesome+cougarand
Any update?
Until then, ditto!
Jorge wrote:Until then, enjoy the following references:
COUGARAND (Gold Champagne [reg as pal.] H): http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/cougarand2 Gorgeous!
AWESOME COUGARAND:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/awesome+cougarand
Any update?
Until then, ditto!