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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:25 pm 
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reedhill wrote:
Jorge wrote:
Any idea on how to prospectively calculate the probabilities of achieving a mainstream competitive appaloosa Thoroughbred coming from a non-Thoroughbred lineage. Many thinking caps and opinions are needed here!
Please post your opinions.
Quote:

Jorge, Please explain here. You are looking for a TB that looks Appalooosa, but not have any TB bloodlines?


Reedhill, I am trying to establish (if that is possible), if Angrovestud's sound strategy of inserting the Appaloosa pattern into the Thoroughbred breed can be achieved via a talented running product and not merely a product with both characteristics (Thoroughbred + Appaloosa).

In order to achieve this, I would like to explore how many prospective and successive generations of 100% percent Thoroughbred ancestors
are necessary to infuse before concluding: "okay, now this new product is competitive enough to run against any normal Thoroughbred and win (or lose) like any other normal Thoroughbred.

In other words, how much Thoroughbred blood is the minimal required for a Thoroughbred-Appaloosa cross to be really competitive so that one may assert: "okay, 7/8th of Thoroughbred blood (or any other cipher) is the rule of thumb for achieving a decent runner". I am aware we are dealing with an inexact science but we have to at least establish a head start. Not an easy task, I think.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Correction on my previous posting:

I am aware that Angrovestud is trying to achieve their theory with Tobianos but I am trying to apply the same method with the Appaloosas


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:34 pm 
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I apologize if these stallions were already talked about http://www.jgappaloosas.com/

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:14 am 
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Hi Jorge
Our current horse in training is 87.5% TB blood and he is the second cross as his sire is 75% TB blood I do not think you need to many crosses to race, if the horse have been bred from winning and placed racing stock we are giving a 7/8th colt a try he looks like a pure TB except for his colour patten, which is as Jorge says Tobiano our thinking will be if this colt does get placed and show he can keep up then we will have achived something we will then most probably put him on to our winnning mares and the resulting progeny will then be 15/16th TB blood out of winners.
If the colt wins thats a dream of a lifetime! and he would be unique in the UK & EU.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:20 am 
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I agree 100% percent with your view and the explained goal. I earnestly wish you success with your program. My only suggestion is that when you finally achieve it, you must consider exporting a member(s) of this new lineage across the Atlantic because I am sure the reception and future of this new strain will exponentially disseminate in America more than in Europe (unfortunately), albeit, your role and that of England would be definitively medular. Thank you so much for your program and good auspicious news.

(p.s. Hope the same occurrs somewhere with the Appaloosas and the genuine roans. The latter is more achievable since the Catch A Bird roan lineage is already among us!)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:06 am 
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Thank you so much Jorge I would love to Export but to be able to I would need the JC to accept NTR Registered horses to race and to be JC registered so it will take more than my lifetime but we hopefully will be the start of it I hope!
our next generation will be 15/16th and be 93.75.
the next will be 96.87%
next will be 98.43
next will be 99.21
next will be 99.60
next will be 99.80
next will be 99.90

We will have then got what is known as a Vehicle horse which will be GSB registered

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:05 pm 
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angrovestud wrote:
next will be 99.90
We will have then got what is known as a Vehicle horse which will be GSB registered


and then....please explain Angrovestud! :D


Hi Derby Lyn,

Thanks. Be happy.....wonderful site I wasn't aware.
My favorite is Waps Bentley. Great!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:18 am 
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Oh Sorry Jorge all our stock when bred to pure TB will be weatherbys General Stud Book registered then we can export them anywhere in the word and be eligable to race with the JC.
I spoke to the director of the International committee who told me that there have been horses flown over to race in the USA that were only registered in the NTR foundation book and they got refused to the racecourse as they were not in the GSB.
if the JC were to follow the line and have an NTR themselves you could introduced what ever colours you like, would be good from a colour breeders point of view.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:58 pm 
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angrovestud wrote:
Oh Sorry Jorge all our stock when bred to pure TB will be weatherbys General Stud Book registered then we can export them anywhere in the word and be eligable to race with the JC.
I spoke to the director of the International committee who told me that there have been horses flown over to race in the USA that were only registered in the NTR foundation book and they got refused to the racecourse as they were not in the GSB.
if the JC were to follow the line and have an NTR themselves you could introduced what ever colours you like, would be good from a colour breeders point of view.


Oh my goodness, the more you write on your experiences, the more I am amazed and want to learn more details into specific names of horses.
Yikes would really like to know about these names and their pedigrees (available at the "allbreed" database I suppose). I wonder if there is any informational article on the subject. Sounds like a wonderful topic for an article! Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:15 am 
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Jorge thank you for your very kind words it is going to take many years to get to the GSB,our stallion is Ricco 75% TB by Captain Maverick Nureyev
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ricco

his possible racing progeny are
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p ... _font=1&l=

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p ... _font=1&l=

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p ... _font=1&l=

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p ... _font=1&l=


http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.p ... _font=1&l=


all these foals are now yearling or two year olds and all eligable to race

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:44 am 
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Angrovestud,

Almost forgot to mention. Are you aware that there was a cropout Thoroughbred horse who was considered a Tobiano by a world authority I once consulted? The name of this horse was TRI CHROME. Here is his pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/tri+chrome

Actually there is a relatively prolific sire from this lineage but I don’t know about his status (Tobiano? etc.). His name is BLUE EYED STREAKER.
Here is his pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/blue+eyed+streaker


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:32 am 
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Jorge thanks yes I was aware of these horses but I did not now that Tri chrome was thought to possibly be Tobiano I do know that our stallion is a splash carrier as well as tobiano and this might have come from the TB

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:58 am 
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Jorge wrote:
Angrovestud,

Almost forgot to mention. Are you aware that there was a cropout Thoroughbred horse who was considered a Tobiano by a world authority I once consulted? The name of this horse was TRI CHROME. Here is his pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/tri+chrome

Actually there is a relatively prolific sire from this lineage but I don’t know about his status (Tobiano? etc.). His name is BLUE EYED STREAKER.
Here is his pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/blue+eyed+streaker
Both Tri Chrome and Blue Eyed Streak were/are Frame Overo. NO tobiano.

Heres a photo of Tri Chrome where its obvious hes frame overo and not tobiano.
Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:46 am 
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I thought you might like to see photos of the 7/8th Foals and yearlings and one two year old so you can see how they compare.
and now

Image
Image

Angrove Rum BaBa out of a Danehill mare

Image


Image

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Angrove Banana Split was sold as a potential eventer

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Angrove Mississippie Mud Pie has been sold to be a stud out of a turtle Island mare

Image



Angrove Treacle Sponge out of a Pursuit of Love Mare



Image

Angrove Rum Syllabub own sister to Angrove Rum BaBa.

last but not least the sire of all the above.
Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Hey Anngrove
I think I told you about this horse of a clients of mine?
He is 7/8th tb and homozygous TT
Could he play a role? or do they need t be listed for 8 generations?.. or just 8 generations provable pedigree?


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