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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:20 pm 
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The following Apps are listed in the Australian Stud Book NTB registry.. so technichally, the 8 generation Anngrove rule would apply?
I found this clause that allows a NTB to become a TB after 8 generations. (I think..That is how I am reading this link here).. Thoughts?

http://www.stallions.com.au/news/2009/06/the-non-stud-book-horse/

So.. Since some of the listed horses MAY be registered NTB..Then.. A spotted TB WOULD / COULD be possible!

Top It is in the ASB
http://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=218594

Ledge Deck
http://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=114809

Wild Klee
http://www.studbook.org.au/Horse.aspx?hid=25638


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:01 pm 
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These cases look more like sloppy handling of paperwork by the breeders of some horses rather than the introduction of non-TB bloodlines.

There are probably a lot of QH who would be competitive with TBs at short distances--they're already largely TB in their breeding.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:32 am 
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Bast wrote:
These cases look more like sloppy handling of paperwork by the breeders of some horses rather than the introduction of non-TB bloodlines.

There are probably a lot of QH who would be competitive with TBs at short distances--they're already largely TB in their breeding.


.. Sorry. I dont understand your post?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:43 am 
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Would like to know the name of the latest, more developed appaloosa strain with Thoroughbred lines. Let's post names from the "Allbreed" database. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:18 am 
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You can find a bunch of mainly QH lineage. The Apps with TB blood are mainly of sport horse lines, as in jumpers. Thoroughbreds are not Appaloosas. It takes a specific gene complex, which is not present in the background of TB's. Any Appaloosa pattern would instantly label a TB as a crossbreed. They can't have TB papers. I bred Appaloosas. I do have a clue about it. I see a bunch of frustration in your future in my crystal ball.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:25 am 
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belambi wrote:
Bast wrote:
These cases look more like sloppy handling of paperwork by the breeders of some horses rather than the introduction of non-TB bloodlines.

There are probably a lot of QH who would be competitive with TBs at short distances--they're already largely TB in their breeding.


.. Sorry. I dont understand your post?


Racing QHs are largely of TB breeding now. In mixed TB/QH races, at short distances (more than common QH distances), you cannot sort out the breed by the way the race is run. A 15/16 TB QH winning in this company is mostly a TB genetically.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:24 pm 
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I am referring to cases like PEONES KATELIN:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/peones+katelin


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Percentage doesn't matter. The thoroughbred has a closed stud book. No horse can be registered as a thoroughbred without proven parentage of registered, parentage tested, confirmed pure thoroughbred lineage. They do blood testing. They also use other testing, hair, mtDNA, for instance. Both parents must be registered thoroughbreds, or no papers will be issued. TB's don't have the App gene complex in their makeup. You can breed a TB to an App, but you don't get TB papers. From what I understand, there is also a group trying to close the App stud book, if they haven't succeeded already. My little band of 4 mares were all foundation App breeding, meaning no TB, QH, or other breeds showing in their pedigree.
Secretariat's first test mare was an Appaloosa. The offspring was a colt, which was named First Secretary. He was colored, chestnut with some white. He eventually had a white blanket with spots. I believe he was bred to some race bred mares, which did very little on the track at all. FS was eventually a hunter/jumper sire with a number of talented offspring. He was standing in either Michigan or Minnesota for a number of years. Even with such an illustrious sire, he still could not get TB papers.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:54 pm 
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ElPrado wrote:
Even with such an illustrious sire, he still could not get TB papers.


He couldn't, but after enough generations of documented TB crosses, descendants could. 8)

There was the case of Primordial, who won the Display Handicap here in the early 1960s, but who could not stand at stud because he was one generation/a few years short of being allowed in as fully TB:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/primordial2

The problem is with Mironton's (sire of Primordial) 3rd dam's sire, Vadarkblar (1913). His 4th dam is Eve (1872), a daughter of the Mogador mare, foundress of Argentine Family 2.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/vadarkblar

http://www.pedigreequery.com/mogador+mare

A few years later, when Primordial would have been eligible to breed registerable TBs in the US, I recall someone looking for him in South America and not being able to find him (pre-Internet days...).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:56 am 
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According to the database available here
PRIMORDIAL sired the following progeny but neither reproduced themselves except for PROEMINENT (whose progeny didn’t extend her lineage):

01. GREEN COLD (filly1967) http://www.pedigreequery.com/green+cold
02. PASTORAL (mare 1967) http://www.pedigreequery.com/pastoral6
03. PITONISA (filly 1967) http://www.pedigreequery.com/pitonisa3
04. PREMIUM (horse 1967) http://www.pedigreequery.com/premium10
05. PROEMINENT (mare 1967) http://www.pedigreequery.com/proeminent
------- DRAMATURGO (SPA) (horse 1977) http://www.pedigreequery.com/dramaturgo3
------- FARMACEUTICA (SPA) (filly 1979) http://www.pedigreequery.com/farmaceutica

Any 21st century update on any of these?


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:12 am 
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Any resurrection on this worth mentioning topic lately?

Until then, don't miss to browse the comic photo of this appaloosa little equine. Do you remember the eye mask that the "three bad guys" who opposed Donald Duck's millionaire uncle used to wear. Well, there you got it! :D :D


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:13 am 
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There you got it:

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-430945


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Here are 2 of my TB's born white turned Appy at 2 y/o :wink: :D !
Color videos taken for new owners, so thought I'd show them here as well.
None of the skin was black at birth, it crops out as the horse ages.

ALLAMAGNIFIQUE (bay base coat) sold for racing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFeztAEiLiw

ALLABOYSWATCHIN (chestnut base coat) just sold for the Hunter's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqEWeCwScIs


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:49 pm 
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Jorge wrote:


He is a BEAUTY!


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:14 am 
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reedhill wrote:
Here are 2 of my TB's born white turned Appy at 2 y/o :wink: :D !
Color videos taken for new owners, so thought I'd show them here as well.
None of the skin was black at birth, it crops out as the horse ages.

ALLAMAGNIFIQUE (bay base coat) sold for racing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFeztAEiLiw

ALLABOYSWATCHIN (chestnut base coat) just sold for the Hunter's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqEWeCwScIs


These two horses are interesting but they just don't look quite "Appy" to me. Seeing these two horses without knowing anything else, I wouldn't necessarily think they were Appaloosas. I would be likely to change my opinion if I saw other typical Appy characteristcs: sclera around the eye, mottle skin, stripped hooves (especially on solid colored legs). The spotting patterns and the spots themselves just don't seem "right" for Appys.

The first one, Allamagnifique, might have white sclera on his eyes but his skin doesn't seem to be the mottled skin the way Appy's typically are. The second one, Allaboyswatchin, doesn't seem to have the sclera, either, and probably not the mottled skin, but the video isn't close-up enough to tell. With both being mostly white and having white legs, it's hard to determine if their hooves are truly striped or not.

They're beautiful, but I think that what they are is a form of DW not Appaloosa. JMO.

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