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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:53 pm 
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And most of the cases are old, or at least pre-DNA verification. Slowly the JC is recognizing modern genetic science.


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:38 am 
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I would say that the main basic problem that has to be solved
via a standard dictum is to establish an official nomenclature to label
all these non-immaculate white equines that are coming from
unquestionable white-influenced parents. Said suggestion, in order to finally set these cases apart from the very well genetically defined "grey/roan" camp, from which they ordinarily have nothing to do.

What in reality occurrs is that not always white equines come with immaculate coats. There are many instances where the foal is so "stained" with traces of solid color that when racing registries see them they incurr in the error of assigning them the misleading label or "grey/roan".

The solution I suggest is to add a new color designation to be known
as "Stained White", in addition from the already existing "White" designation. This treatment, to somehow follow what occurrs today with the designations of a "bay" vis-a-vis a "dark bay or brown".

The most important thing is to prioritized in separating both independent coat colors.


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:32 am 
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Oh NO! So sad, that colic is terrible on our four legged friends! A friend of my co-owner and me when I was in Lexington, Paul Brown bred my horsey friend, Diamonds and Lace to The White Fox, and the story was in the Lexington newspaper, he did not expect at all to have a white one, and although he waited for some time for her to foal, he had to run errands, or something, can't remember the whole story, and when he came back he thought that a baby deer had somehow gotten into the barn we were also using...turned out it was not a light colored baby deer, but one white colt, now knows as Chief White Fox! :shock: I have some incredible personally taken photos of him and Diamonds, his mom, together right after he was born, and it was sunny and there seemed to be a camera 'blur' of brightness around that bright white colt. I hear, though, that keeping sunscreen on them is quite the 'event' so I don't know if I could handle a white one, beautiful without saying, but lots of extra elbow grease :D

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Part of the problem with the JC, is that there are two issues to consider. First, identification of the horse at a racing barn. Passport needs to match the horse to the description to prevent fraud of all sorts. Which of course leads to all sorts of complications. A horse with a red base coat and heavy white ticking can be look gray/roan but be DW, or sabino or one of the white color patterns not related to the gray gene.

On the other hand if you register by genetic color, you can get the situation of having a passport listing a horse as bay or black, while the horse standing in the stall is pure white.

Coming up with a new color designation isn't going to fix the underlying problem of horse identification.

Perhaps adopting the German system of including both a color and a genetic color type might Ee Aa, DW1 Cr cr, might help solve the problem.


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Although the actual system is not a super rigurous genetically-based one
(which explains why those wrongly labeled misleading "gray/roans" are officialized as such) in general terms, it has served well the Thoroughbred industry.

But that doesn't mean that the industry has no obligation in trying to get rid of those apparent inoffensive flaws for the sake of giving correctness to our pedigrees for the future. I would like to see a more proactive vision rather than a reactive one. For example, right now the "roan" phenotype is a reality via the Catch A Birds, whether or not their genotype has been proved. Their pictures with their darker heads legs and points are evident. Why not act in a proactrive way and separate both coalesced coat colors into two categories ("greys" / "roans") as way of anticipating the future
coming of the Catch A Bird "roans"?

I think that the time has come for re-setting a protocol regarding the following coat colors:

01. "Greys" = practically all the actual "grey/roans".
02. "Roans" = the increasing prolific Catch A Birds cases.
03. "Stained Whites" = those white-based non-immaculate whites wrongly being labeled as "grey/roans".
04. "Whites" = those immaculate or almost immaculate whites of today.
05. "Marked Bay" = "Bays" far more maculated than the "Stained Whites"
06. "Marked Chestnut" = "Chestnuts" far more maculated than the "Stained Whites". (etc.)


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Although the actual system is not a super rigurous genetically-based one
(which explains why those wrongly labeled misleading "gray/roans" are officialized as such) in general terms, it has served well the Thoroughbred industry.

But that doesn't mean that the industry has no obligation in trying to get rid of those apparent inoffensive flaws for the sake of giving correctness to our pedigrees for the future. I would like to see a more proactive vision rather than a reactive one. For example, right now the "roan" phenotype is a reality via the Catch A Birds, whether or not their genotype has been proved. Their pictures with their darker heads legs and points are evident. Why not act in a proactrive way and separate both coalesced coat colors into two categories ("greys" / "roans") as way of anticipating the future
coming of the Catch A Bird "roans"?

It is very important to clarify to our readers that the aforementioned genetic "flaws" I am referring to in the preceding paragraph is solely limited to phenotypical coat color designations and not to areas related to genotype.



I think that the time has come for re-setting a protocol regarding the following coat colors:

01. "Greys" = practically all the actual "grey/roans".
02. "Roans" = the increasing prolific Catch A Birds cases.
03. "Stained Whites" = those white-based non-immaculate whites wrongly being labeled as "grey/roans".
04. "Whites" = those immaculate or almost immaculate whites of today.
05. "Marked Bay" = "Bays" far more maculated than the "Stained Whites"
06. "Marked Chestnut" = "Chestnuts" far more maculated than the "Stained Whites". (etc.)


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Jorge wrote:
Although the actual system is not a super rigurous genetically-based one
(which explains why those wrongly labeled misleading "gray/roans" are officialized as such) in general terms, it has served well the Thoroughbred industry.

But that doesn't mean that the industry has no obligation in trying to get rid of those apparent inoffensive flaws for the sake of giving correctness to our pedigrees for the future. I would like to see a more proactive vision rather than a reactive one. For example, right now the "roan" phenotype is a reality via the Catch A Birds, whether or not their genotype has been proved. Their pictures with their darker heads legs and points are evident. Why not act in a proactrive way and separate both coalesced coat colors into two categories ("greys" / "roans") as way of anticipating the future
coming of the Catch A Bird "roans"?

I think that the time has come for re-setting a protocol regarding the following coat colors:

01. "Greys" = practically all the actual "grey/roans".
02. "Roans" = the increasing prolific Catch A Birds cases.
03. "Stained Whites" = those white-based non-immaculate whites wrongly being labeled as "grey/roans".
04. "Whites" = those immaculate or almost immaculate whites of today.
05. "Marked Bay" = "Bays" far more maculated than the "Stained Whites"
06. "Marked Chestnut" = "Chestnuts" far more maculated than the "Stained Whites". (etc.)


It is very important to clarify to our readers that the aforementioned genetic "flaws" I am referring to in the preceding paragraph is solely limited to phenotypical coat color designations and not to areas related to genotype.


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:30 am 
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The North American JC's current official coat color designations and nomenclature were designed to be as simple as possible in the interest of reducing the need for corrections to reports as originally filed. The JC does require precise description of white distribution and other information relevant to appearance. That information is entered in their records and on the actual registration certificates (therefore available to track stewards for ID purposes), but is usually not otherwise published.


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