Color Question

karenkarenn · Postby **karenkarenn** » Sun May 15, 2011 3:13 pm

Hello Out there,
I have some questions Re: Color--
take SONGANDAPRAYER--
So I see that his sire was grey I am assuming that he gets his color through
Trolley SOng, caro, Fortinio and Grey sovereign...
1. Since Unbridled Song was a grey through those few lines, does that mean that Grey Soveriegn s lines through his dam Kong is alive more so because of his color?
2. Complicated question..
My mare Go Go Diablo is starting to majorly ROAN out. She has a white patch under her belly-- not near the girth mind you--- but she's slowly losing her bay color and turning a grey/roan color. I can't find in her family who could have contributed this? Any guesses....
I mean Roaning ALL OVER.
Anyone?

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:32 pm

Please post some photos of Go Go Diablo for us to browse and comment

Anyway, as per GGD’s “roany” influence, don’t forget that she is carrying what seems like very powerful and proven “sabino” doses from Roberto (honoring Roberto Clemente), Halo, Cohoes, Lil Sis, and Hillary.

As per SONGANDAPRAYER, his “sabino” influence seems to owe much, very much to Well Decorated, Reminiscing, and Lucky Mel (via both Heliopolis and Royal Charger).

The patches here are more related to their “sabino” influences than to the gray color.

karenkarenn · Postby **karenkarenn** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:45 pm

Do you think that I might get a grey or roan baby?
I would trip on my brains

karenkarenn · Postby **karenkarenn** » Sun May 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Sorry
what did Roberto Look like ?
I know that Halo was dark bay.
As far as pictures, right now we are in a bad snow storm, she hasn't left and will not leave her run. When we get a time where we are not storming than I can snap a couple of close ups.

As you can tell I changed my status because we had close to 12.5 inches of moisture from November 2010 to now.. Its alot for us.
Karen

accphotography · Postby **accphotography** » Sun May 15, 2011 9:47 pm

Roberto was dark bay.

Halo was BLACK.

karenkarenn · Postby **karenkarenn** » Sun May 15, 2011 9:57 pm

OKay so how does Halo and Roberto give coloring?

springboro · Postby **springboro** » Sun May 15, 2011 10:04 pm

Halo was dark bay... Find me one legitimate article that described him as black. I find "near black" sometimes, but he wasn't black.

accphotography · Postby **accphotography** » Mon May 16, 2011 12:08 am

I don't need an article. I saw him up close in person. He was black if I've ever seen one. I can't help it if TJC won't recognize reality. Not only that, he has a whole horde of descendants that are rarely disputed as black.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:50 am

Neither Songandaprayer nor Go Go Diablo are grey horses, so you cannot get a grey foal. But you might get a white foal.

Go Go has sabino traits; ie the big blaze and belly spot, along with white hairs throughout her coat. Neither of her parents were grey. Songandaprayer also has, and throws, splashy white.

Grey is a color modifier, where the foal is born colored (palomino, chestnut, bay or black) and turns grey, usually by age 2. By 9 or 10 a grey is typically white with flea-bitten marks. Greys change every year, losing more of the dark iron dapples and whiting out.

springboro · Postby **springboro** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:27 am

someone finally fixed Halo in the database back to dark bay (small victories) and I find zero black offspring. Not to beat a dead horse (thanks, I'm here all week; be sure to tip your wait staff) but which are the black ones to which you refer?

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:48 am

SONGANDAPRAYER looks to be a regular bay. He had a 50 50 chance of getting the chromosome with the grey gene, and he didn't get it. This is not something that can hide.

The grey gene makes a nice marker for the transmission of the chromosome where it is located. Given that the isn't grey, we know that Songandaprayer doesn't have the grey gene, so doesn't have anything else that was carried on the chromsome that came from Trolley Song.

Hope that answered your question.

karenkarenn · Postby **karenkarenn** » Mon May 16, 2011 9:33 am

If you guys and gals don't mind. I would like to put some names out there that have had different colors than the dam and sire. I have been seeing them out there alot lately when I am watching S.A. and Hol.
Now Just to warn you, I have no idea how coloring genes work, so when I ask questions... its not to make anyone mad. I swear it s just simply I don't know.
:oops:

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:09 am

Here are a couple of basic rules:

Chestnut x Chestnut = Chestnut

Gray always has at least one gray parent.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:21 am

xfactor fan wrote:...Given that the isn't grey, we know that Songandaprayer doesn't have the grey gene, so doesn't have anything else that was carried on the chromsome that came from Trolley Song...

Question from a non-color breeder with just a dim understanding: Wouldn't that only be true if Trolley Song was homozygous for grey?

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:25 am

Clarification:

When Thoroughbred authorities use the term "Gray/Roan"
they are referring to "grays". They are not referring to the genuine
"R gene" Roans. Thats the reason why I use the term "roaning" when referring to non-genetic (non "R" gene) roans. These are not "grays".
In other words, what we use to call "roaning" is in reality a "sabino" influenced horse with no relation to the gray color.

Other than this little clarification, the rest of the observations posted here are correct. THe problem comes when the three terms are mixed up ("grays", "roans" and "sabinos") as synonimous.