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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:54 pm 
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Thanks to the courtesy of a valuable collaborator, we have been informed that a very very all "roaned" case has appeared. His name is LUCKY CHAPPY (IRE) (bay colt 2009). He recently competed in the Bourbon Stakes at Keeneland. He is officially registered as a "bay" and is coming from two officially registered "bay" parents. See his pedigree at:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/lucky+chappy


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:08 pm 
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That is as roaned as any "non roan" I have EVER, EVER seen!!!

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If I didn't know better I would have guessed he hailed from Catch a Bird. However I think he's a case of extreme rabicano. I don't see it in his grandparents so it must have come from the tail female line. It stops at his jaw and knees just like roan would. Amazing.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Take a look at the race at:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... al-spirits

LUCKY CHAPPY is the horse who initiates last (going to the rail) and arrived third. He is also fashioning a rabicano tail, which can be better appreciated at the end of the race.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:29 am 
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This has been baffling me ever since I first saw a photo of Lucky Chappy.

I had always adamantly believed that there could never be a roan thoroughbred, and now I have seen two of them. Lucky Chappy and Red Dust.

If you want to see their photos, go to the Roster at the Team Valor website. www.teamvalor.com Red Dust is in the Older Horses category and Lucky Chappy is in the 2yo Colts section.

I had always believed that "it takes a roan to make a roan" just like "it takes a grey to make a grey." And because of that, there could never exist a true roan in the thoroughbred breed. There had never been roans in the breed, so if one suddenly appeared, then that meant there had to have been an introduction of some other breed, which by definition would never happen among "thoroughbreds".

And what breed could be introduced anyway without slowing down the result? Lucky Chappy is fast! He ran third in that stakes, coming from last place.

Where does this extra color come from? Maybe it just appears as a fluke? Maybe it does not take a roan to make a roan?

Lucky Chappy is teaching me to be a bit more open-minded and realize that the things I believe may not necessarily be so.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:07 am 
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VERY interesting! If there was a grey / roan in Lucky Chappy's immediate pedigree, that would explain a lot but since there isnt ... :? :? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:27 am 
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The first grey ancestor of Lucky Chappy is Native Dancer in the 5th generation.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:58 am 
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how interesting. and this boy ist stunning!!!! i like him.

you doesn`t find any thoroughbred in thiy color odre markings in germany.

for german thoroughbred breeders, a horse will be very colorful, if it`s have one white fetlock... :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:18 am 
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Well he can't be a grey.. could be a mutation?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:34 pm 
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It's not an anomaly. He's not gray. He's not roan. He's rabicano. Rabicano is not something that would be mentioned in the pedigree and thus you couldn't determine if it was possible based on his parent's registered colors. Rabicano can be so minimal as to only be a few hairs in the tail and flank and those minimals can easily throw horses as loud as Chappy. Looking at his tail there is no doubt he's rabicano. The same with Red Dust. In fact, Red Dust is even more clearly rabicano than Chappy is. Red Dust's expression is very, very common for rabicano. I've seen loads of them in TBs. I'm sure I have photos of lots of them somewhere. Lucky Chappy's is unusually loudly expressed, yes, but nowhere near an anomaly.

Do you guys believe that Arabians don't have anything but chestnut, bay, black and gray? No roan, no cream, no dun, etc.? If so, how do you explain this?

Purebred Arabian Dancing Colors:
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Very, very similar presentation to Red Dust.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:41 pm 
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this leads to the question:

Are Roan and Rabicano related? Is one a full expression of the other?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:54 pm 
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I heard that the Keeneland ID people who check tattoos and color prior to each race were giving the trainer some grief over the fact that Lucky Chappy is registered as a bay, and yet he had brought this "grey" horse over from the barn.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:54 pm 
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No. They actually present differently. Even at it's loudest (or most minimal) roans never have a coon tail. Even at it's loudest (or most minimal) rabicanos never don't have a coon tail. Also, Smart Little Lena was cloned 5 times and all 5 results are simple rabicano just as he was. That certainly implies it is what it is, a simple dominant.

Also, I've never seen a rabicano come out of a simple roan and vice versa. Never.

It is STRONGLY suspected that rabicano is on KIT as well as roan though that really means nothing.

I personally believe ALLL roaning, especially roan, rabicano and sabino operate by the same rules of stopping at the throat, knees and hocks just by nature of roaning, especially those on the KIT gene.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Absolutely, RED DUST is also a very interesting case!

RED DUST (URU) (chestnut colt 2006)

PEDIGREE: http://www.pedigreequery.com/red+dust4
PHOTO: http://www.pedigreequery.com/photos/red+dust4


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:43 am 
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My old blue roan Blue Peter he had white at the top of his tail he was a native type not TB

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Man Of Faith http://www.pedigreequery.com/man+of+faith
is a homozygous bay (DNA tested) rabicano. His coon tail was shaved at the track when I bought him.
Interesting, he has turned black now for the winter, and he has 'barring' all up the front of his neck.
Will have to get a photo for here and his new owners.


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