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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:23 am 
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Gotta question. Is there a name for or an explanation for when a sire produces a gender that is better than the opposite gender?
For Example:
If a sire stats show that the boys do better and win more often and the fillies rarely win claiming races.
Or vice versa..
Karen


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Sex linked.

A stallion gives all his son his Y chromosome--which doesn't have a lot of information.

A stallion gives his X to all his daughters. The X chromosome is very large and has lots if information.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Okay what kind of information are you talking about? See I had my filly genetically tested to see if she would be a stakes winner. I have the report somewhere and it said that if she was a he, that she/he would have had a large success at being a stakes winner. This was when she was a yearling.
And so I was curious as to why that was so. And wanting to learn more about that code or info.
Karen


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:33 pm 
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you had a test done to see if she would be a stake winner? Please explain.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:10 pm 
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No..
I am sticking to the topic.
And you if you need to know go to the internet... it's not difficult to find.


Anyways what kind of information does the stallion give?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:36 pm 
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http://thegeneticedge.net/index.php


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:18 pm 
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OKay what part of that website should I look at for xfactors fan information?
Karen
P.s. IF this is the site that you think that I took for my fillies genetic test, no your wrong. But if this supports Xfactor Fan statement, then what part.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:32 pm 
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No, I wondered if that was the service you used. Like Crystal, I was unfamiliar with any genetic testing that indicated a probability of stakes wins.

I bow to the experts on this board if they have a different opinion, but my knee jerk reaction is that it's like old time snake oil sales.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:38 pm 
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There are genetic tests for particular genes that can indicate racing ability, but obviously it's only one part of a very large equation. I'm neither for nor against it so far. As genetic testing improves it will get better.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:39 pm 
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No its not ..
Back to someone that knows more about genetics than I do. Prfsue - I really want to learn. Its a different way of thinking about breeding.
If anyone has anything informative on this issue or know more about this issue please feel free to put your advice on here.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:23 pm 
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You have a site that promises that?
Does it also promise your money back if it doesn't quite live up to that promise?
I'll guarantee that it doesn't.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:50 pm 
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You know I didn't want to have this thread turn into Genetic testing bashing. I wanted to learn about the genetic issue regarding a stallion having better male offspring versus his female offspring.
Now, Xfactor was on a good point that I would like to talk about. Again if you have any information regarding that point please feel free to post, but I would really like to keep this thread going based on genetics on male and female offspring.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:36 am 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>How many of you have bred a mare to a sire you admire, hoping of course you will capture some of his talent and presence in the foal, yet the foal has little resemblance to the illustrous sire? This is because the leading dominance in the foal was not the same as what made up the key qualities in the sire. Your foal is going to resemble the leading dominance in the genetics, and that can change with every breeding and every generation.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

from...

http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/pedigree-study.html

>>>>>>>>>>>But what would happen if you found the female line to balance your overloaded male lines? And what if, that female was not just the sister, but the 3/4 or even better, the full sister? Then you would be well on your way to bringing back all that greatness that had been watered down.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/the-Mare.html

Evaluation done of the pedigrees in the Thoroughbred Industry revealed that particular pedigree patterns produce either better fillies or colts, and that there also was a difference between good breeding stock (both stallions and mares)when compared to the pedigree design of performance only winners. See Potency Primer page for more on this.

and...

http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/potency-primer.html


Pedigree Structure Indicates Potential. Very few pedigrees are equally good for a filly or a colt. There are general rules about what makes a pedigree good, such as having full or 3/4 siblings is an excellent way to upgrade your horses, being almost a guarantee of outstanding performance. And having sex balanced line-breeding unlocks the full potential of a target ancestor. The extensive research that has been done in the Thoroughbred Industry has turned up some interesting statistics. For it seems, depending on the sex of the ancestor that is duplicated and sex balanced the result will be better for either fillies or colts.


Through studying thousands of pedigrees the researchers were able to identify pedigree patterns that were consistently present in the best performance horses and the best breeding stock. They established that the better fillies and colts have pedigree patterns that differ from each other.


The following is an outline of what they discovered: The statistics show, that good performance fillies or mares have multiple lines of daughters of a superior sire and/or both sons and daughters of an exceptional mare. These are called filly factors.


Better performance colts and stallions have the opposite: multiple lines of sons of a target mare, and/or sons and daughters of a superior sire. These are called colt factors.


Things get more complicated with breeding stock. For producing excellent broodmares a pedigree goal would be to include the filly factors mentioned above along with some colt factors. The colt factors are seldom a problem, usually being there already, often too many of them. It is harder to get multiple lines of a mare because mares produce far fewer offspring than stallions. It is a very unusual mare that has more filly factors than colt factors, but ideally that is what you want to create for a good broodmare. The best mares have a high number of filly factors, plus a slightly lower percent of colt factors.


Good stallions have the colt factors above but also carry a significant and strong filly factor(s). Your breeding stock - male or female, will benefit from the presence of strong filly factors.


No breeding is equally good for both sexes, so plan your matings accordingly.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Repeat the Breeding. Once you have constructed what you believe is the best possible genetic combination for your sport horse foal, the experts advise that you repeat the breeding, at least once. Even Tesio did this, and the science of genetics backs this advice up.


Bowling said, "The random assortment of chromosome pairs during gamete formation means we can not predict the exact proportion of genes that any two siblings have in common."


Each of the genes can divide and combine in many variations and your first, or even second mating may not get the most beneficial shuffle of the genetic deck. If you are planning your matings correctly, even the lesser of the foals should be a very good horse, but the variation possible doesn't insure that he first foal will be the best of the bunch, so repeat the breeding, at least once.


very interesting...

http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/Man-O-War.html

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:43 am 
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OKay - Bayrabicano -- This help alot Thankyou.
If you wouldn't mind to help me sort through the information and it may take a while for me to fully digest this. And also since you seem to have alot of knowledge about this, can I ask some questions latter on?
K


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Hi Karen,

Ask away with the questions. Hopefully, if you ask a direct question relating to the science part, you will get an answer from one of the experts on this board...

All I did was a quick google search and cut-n-pasted the results. Bluntly, I have enough breeding books to fill a small wheelbarrow and have yet to have an epiphany about who should be bred to what.

I like the breeding on your filly and hope that she becomes a good racehorse.

The question being about the difference between the boys and the girls...

from an AU site...

GENDER - CAN PERFORMANCE BE SEX LINKED?

With only two options for the gender of a foal, sex inheritance is easy to follow. Male horses possess an X and a Y chromosome (rod-like structures which carry the units of heriditary material called genes), while females possess two X chromosomes. On the meeting of the egg and sperm, one of her X's pairing up with the stallion's X will result in a female, while one of her Xs pairing up with the stallion's Y will result in a male. Therefore, the resulting embryo's sex is determined by its sire - the dam can only contribute 'female' X's. This basic fact of life, paired with the law of probability, negates statements such as "My mare only produces colts," or "That stallion produces more fillies than colts." Although both these statements may be accurate at the time, given an opportunity to produce more progeny, laws of probability should correct any imbalance.
There is scientifically supported evidence however, that racing ability can, in some stallions, be more readily passed on to one gender than the other. Examples of stallions which appear to have a sex bias are; Prince Echo (fillies); Salieri (colts); Luskin Star (fillies); Jungle Boy (fillies); Rubiton (fillies), Tantieme (colts) and Secretariat (fillies). Luskin Star has a 'double whammy' in that he is also said to produce better chestnuts.
There are a total of thirty two pairs of chromosomes in the horse, and although the exact number is not yet known, there are believed to be thousands of genes located on each chromosome, each responsible for determining one or more characteristics, or traits. Put simply, it is possible that a certain combination of desirable traits may have located on some stallions' X chromosome (that which is passed on to create fillies), and some other stallions' Y chromosome (that which is passed on to colts) resulting in a sex bias for ability.
If a mare possesses a sex chromosome containing all the racing ability goodies, she would also conceivably pass it on to half her progeny, however as her X chromosome can go toward making either a male or a female with the addition of the stallion's X or Y, there would be no sex bias.
An extension of this theory is that it can also explain the "broodmare sire" effect; that is, that desirable traits sex-linked to a stallion's X chromosome, and sometimes not even expressed in some of his daughters, can be passed on and manifested in their progeny,
It is assumed however, that in the majority of stallions, the combination of traits which determine racing ability are not located on a sex chromosome and both male and female progeny stand an equal chance of inheriting these traits.

http://www.ozhorseracing.com/resourcecentre_sexbias.htm

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