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 Post subject: Oxbow
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Interesting color for a bay, looks like he is greying out but he is not.


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:41 pm 
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That's the very same thought that came to my mind when I was observing him. Even more headscratching seems to me the following:
his broodmare, sire Cees Tizzy is a grey (supposedly dominant when crossed with solid color mates) who happens to show a very sub-par record in producing grey males. In fact that's the reason why I posted the following thread some time ago:

"Cees Tizzy's grey males"

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... cees+tizzy


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:22 pm 
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He is odd. Especially when you consider he is not rabicano and not obviously sabino.

To some extent equally interesting is how slowly Mylute is graying (several people at the Preakness party I was at today are CONVINCED Mylute is roan and a few even think Oxbow is gray, despite what I told them).

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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:10 am 
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I was scratching my head as well, as he is registered as bay yet yesterday he did look to be changing.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:35 am 
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Hi all, hope everyone doing well and healthy!

I could not WAIT to see the comments on Oxbow's unusual coloring. As you all said, listed as a bay, but they called him grey on TV yesterday, but IMHO, he looks like a red roan. He also has the extra long, thicker tail, is that not very usual in the very true greys (Jorge?) His tail had to be cut as it was almost to the ground. Gorgeous boy.

Jorge, what do you think he's going to do as he ages? I noticed his very gorgeous color in the Derby pre-race programming, as you could not see what color any of them were in that slop!

I was rooting, of course, for Ruffian's great-nephew, Orb, to win, but just not to be. This just goes to show the horses of today are nothing compared to yesteryears non-inbred to death TB's. Sad.

anyway, hope you all are doing well!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:58 am 
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erhrdt3 wrote:
Hi all, hope everyone doing well and healthy!

I could not WAIT to see the comments on Oxbow's unusual coloring. As you all said, listed as a bay, but they called him grey on TV yesterday, but IMHO, he looks like a red roan. He also has the extra long, thicker tail, is that not very usual in the very true greys (Jorge?) His tail had to be cut as it was almost to the ground. Gorgeous boy.

Jorge, what do you think he's going to do as he ages? I noticed his very gorgeous color in the Derby pre-race programming, as you could not see what color any of them were in that slop!

I was rooting, of course, for Ruffian's great-nephew, Orb, to win, but just not to be. This just goes to show the horses of today are nothing compared to yesteryears non-inbred to death TB's. Sad.

anyway, hope you all are doing well!



I really wasn't paying that much attention to Oxbow's phenotype
because the photos I had seen were not that telltelling. But when
I saw him on TV I was really intrigued. Here are my reactions in
order of thoughts:

01. Hmmm, that phenotype must be some kind of angle-related
camera trick or due to a very close hair clipping.
If not, then he is the newest version of a similar case that appeared in last year's Triple Crown series who came from Europe and participated in last year's Breeders Cup Juvenile. Another case that can be mentioned is Sweet Return.

02. Then, my next thought was: Hmmm, he is coming from a grey broodmare sire! What if the dam was a bona-fide grey who was wrongly
labeled as "solid-color" and her color was never corrected? But when I realized she was no obscure mare but the full sister of an elite horse and
an elite linege not realistically subject to that kind of error. So I discarded that possibility.

03. Then, I decided to keep to myself this topic for lack of additional theories but thanks to "Nancy T" this topic has dawned.

04. Given the fact that we cannot assert that Oxbow is coming from an
immediate gray parent (sire/dam), then we have to conclude that he is not going to behave like an ordinary "G" gray gene, in which case he is not going to grey-out as it normally occurrs with greys.

05. Whether he is a genuine Roan mutation I cannot say, without entering into unproven speculation. I don't want to enter into wishful thinking either but I think that the influences of Northern Dancer and Halo are causing many many strange occurrences that are maturing right before our eyes. Don't forget that both are coming from The Tetrarch and the one-man-gang of color oddities: Hyperion.

As for the comments on Mylute, let me tell you that he looks exactly the same as Negruzca (Scandal--Wealthia/by All Hands) looked during her sophomore racing days. She was officially registered as "Dark Bay or Brown" and even represented her country in the Caribbean International Stakes (Gr-1) in December of her sophomore year. At that time she was beginning to reveal herself as a truly dark gray equine. In fact the name "Negruzca" means "Blackish" in female form.

Hey, have you noticed that both winners (Derby & Preakness) are carrying short names and beginning with the letter "O"? What about the Belmont?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:04 am 
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Here are the cases I was referring to:

LUCKY CHAPPY photo already posted here:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lucky+chappy

accphotography wrote:
That is as roaned as any "non roan" I have EVER, EVER seen!!!
Image


BookieBuster wrote:
Here is another photo of LUCKY CHAPPY taken at Churchill Downs last week.

You can really see the white in his tail in this shot.

Image
[/img]


OXBOW photo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/oxbow3
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/hor ... kness.html

SWEET RETURN photo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/sweet+return
http://www.google.com.pr/search?hl=es-4 ... return-(gb)-112.html%3B700%3B559

SHOW ME THE MOOLAH photo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/show+me+the+moolah

http://www.google.com.pr/search?hl=es-4 ... wI#imgrc=_


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:39 am 
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wow, thank you all for the great photos!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:51 am 
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There are several very curious data on Oxbow's winning jockey Gary Stevens that makes one relate him to "greys" or at least "grey-looking" Thoroughbreds.

01. He won the 1988 Kentucky Derby with the "roan"-registered filly Winning Colors. He won that race in a front running fashion.
Winning Colors was sort of misleadingly recalled as a "roan" but
she was a bona-fide gray.

02. Now he wins the Preakness with a bay-registered colt (Oxbow) who many people are referring to as "roan-looking" equine. Same as it occurred with Winning Colors 25 years ago. In addition, just as he did with Winning Colors, now he wins with Oxbow in front running fashion.

03. In addition to the aforementioned details, Gary Stevens also won the 1997 Kentucky Derby and 1997 Preakness Stakes with an officially registered grey colt. His name was Silver Charm.

Seem to me that Gary Stevens is by far the winningest grey-Thoroughbred
jockey and winningest "roaned"-looking Thoroughbred jockey of all time in US Triple Crown races.

Overall winning record in the Kentucky Derby:
Silver Charm (1997)
Thunder Gulch (1995)
Winning Colors (1988)

Overall winning record in the Preakness Stakes:
Oxbow (2013)
Point Given (2001)
Silver Charm (1997)

Overall winning record in the Belmont Stakes:
Point Given (2001)
Victory Gllop (1998)
Thunder Gulch (1995)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:33 pm 
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there is a clip of Oxbow loading today to head back to Churchill and you can see varnish spots in him, if he is not a roan what is he? Interesting !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Overall winning record in the Kentucky Derby:
Silver Charm (1997)
Thunder Gulch (1995)
Winning Colors (1988)

Overall winning record in the Preakness Stakes:
Oxbow (2013)
Point Given (2001)
Silver Charm (1997)

Overall winning record in the Belmont Stakes:
Point Given (2001)
Victory Gallop (1998)
Thunder Gulch (1995)


Funny little list there considering Point Given is a son of Thunder Gulch. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:53 pm 
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It's almost incredible! If you watch the following race replay, (the one provided by the Daily Racing Form), and you pinpoint Oxbox and Mylute,
they both look like real "greys" but only Mylute is the genuine one.
Moreover, Oxbox looks even more lightly colored than Mylute.

http://www.drf.com/news/preakness-stake ... fourth-3-5


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Mylute is indeed exceptionally dark for his age.

This photo shows Oxbow's sire to have quite a bit of roaning of his own.

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Oh Jorge, you brought up one of my all time favs, Silver Charm! The only year I bet the win, place on the Derby and won it. Bet $30 on it and returned quite well, so I bought myself a sterling silver necklace with a running horse charm to match. Sad he is not in the States.

Thank you for the great memory!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Jorge wrote:
Here are the cases I was referring to:

LUCKY CHAPPY photo already posted here:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lucky+chappy

accphotography wrote:
That is as roaned as any "non roan" I have EVER, EVER seen!!!
Image


BookieBuster wrote:
Here is another photo of LUCKY CHAPPY taken at Churchill Downs last week.

You can really see the white in his tail in this shot.

Image
[/img]


OXBOW photo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/oxbow3
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/hor ... kness.html

SWEET RETURN photo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/sweet+return
http://www.google.com.pr/search?hl=es-4 ... return-(gb)-112.html%3B700%3B559

SHOW ME THE MOOLAH photo: http://www.pedigreequery.com/show+me+the+moolah

http://www.google.com.pr/search?hl=es-4 ... wI#imgrc=_


Oh my! ACC, I sure do agree with you on that?! They call him a bay/brown?? :o
on another topic, how is that gorgeous palomino filly you have doing? :D

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