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 Post subject: Texas horse herd seized
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:41 am 
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I don't believe this has been prior subject. Please excuse me if Im wrong.

These has got to be the worst condition I've ever seen a thoroughbred in. :cry:

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=14191


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:46 am 
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Oh my God, me too. That's horrific.

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:24 pm 
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While this is the first I've heard of this particular seizure I am familiar with the True Blue Rescue, Bluebonnet Equine and T-Bar.org animal welfare/rescue/rehab groups that are based in/out of Brenham, the county seat of Washington County. All of these entities are very well run, conscientious and ethical organizations operating in a county of rural population density that lies between Houston and Austin so very dependant upon donations of time and money/goods and services to do the good that they manage to do and do well.

True Blue is the rescue I adopted my current dog from. Fourth of July last year I drove up to Brenham and brought "Belle" (then known to True Blue as "June") home to her forever home + I brought one of her pups for a co-worker to adopt. Both dogs have found their forever homes and brighten many lives. Last time I checked all but one of Belle's pups had found new homes.

I couldn't have been more impressed with this group's professional and caring approach to responsible animal care, rescue and rehabilitation. They are in an underserved locale and obviously one where when the 'needs' arise they are often in the proportions of 'herds' rather than individual seizures. I am not surprised to read that they were trying to help this "owner" to find homes for these horses while feeding them but went straight to the authorities when she refused to accept placements for her undernourished stock. The authorities in this county and others in central Texas know they can call on True Blue when they encounter abuse/neglect of equines and get the professional/knowlegeable help they need to handle the situation properly. I very much doubt this owner will be given any of these horses 'back' by the court/authorities as the article indicates could happen - I and most Texans would rather see her hanged.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:45 pm 
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The horses that were seized come from Hopkins county in far NE Texas up near the Oklahoma border. True Blue, etc. have been called upon to help because of their expertise in such efforts.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:30 pm 
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That horses condition is similar to this one this past week in Marion County, Florida-

http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=37241.7

>sigh<.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Can this thread be transferred to the horses in need, please? Not every single board user is interested in this kind of subject, and that is the reason there is a separate section for this kind of matter.


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 Post subject: horses
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:02 pm 
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georgez, what is it with you and springboro that you think since you guys dont like these threads, that you always say go to the other one???? No one goes to the other one, hence the reason people post it here. And just because there are people on this section, which by the way, is called GENERAL, who arent interested, so what, bypass it and go to a topic you are interested in. There are MANY topics on all threads that dont interest someone in particular, and at the same time, obviously, interest alot of people. So you scroll down until you see one that you want to read about , then read it, not go to every thing that irritates you and then read it and gripe. you could go to EVERY SINGLE THREAD on this board and find something that doesnt fit, if you really have that much time. Go get yourself a martini, wine a ribeye, SOMETHING :!: to make yourself feel better about life beside griping about something you have no control over in the first place, I mean do you really have that much time :?:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Perhaps all current threads should be in General and anything over a week old, or a week since last activity, could be filed under more specific topics. It would seem just as much a burden, to most who come here to catch up quickly on general things of importance, to have to click through each sub-topic, as for those who like to hang out in particular topic areas.

For the individual who is complaining about the thread not belonging here, it seems the title clearly indicates it isn't something you would be interested in. Why not just skip over it? This kind of reminds me of arguing over where to hang the towel in the bathroom.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:24 pm 
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jellac wrote:
The horses that were seized come from Hopkins county in far NE Texas up near the Oklahoma border. True Blue, etc. have been called upon to help because of their expertise in such efforts.


It's good to know these people are competent and trustworthy. Are they private or government? Why did it take 5 months to get help for these horses, do you know?


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 Post subject: Re: horses
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:28 am 
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walaa wrote:
georgez, what is it with you and springboro that you think since you guys dont like these threads, that you always say go to the other one???? No one goes to the other one, hence the reason people post it here. :


I like things placed where they're supposed to be placed. The whole horses in need area was created because of all the foaming at the mouth of several posters here. I don't like wading through a lot of posts and prefer having them go directly to the HORSES IN NEED. Seems simple enough. I also prefer the color threads to go to the Color Section. Foal stuff... foal area. See where this is going? Makes it easier. AND... I'm delighted to know that the moderators apparently agree with this logic.

Have a nice weekend to you as well!


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 Post subject: Re: horses
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:45 am 
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walaa wrote:
No one goes to the other one, hence the reason people post it here.


Then perhaps this is a good indicator of interest? Or training of people who read this area.

Those of you who die on every cross when you see some unhappy situation can all join each other in holding hands in the HORSES IN NEED section and hold a prayer vigil and foment each other into action.

I find that every single time someone brings up rescue it just turns into an emotional and ugly exchange that brings no resolution.

I prefer to save what local horses I can and do the things which I can accomplish.

And again, that is why this convenient HORSES IN NEED section was created. Use it please.

Now, about that steak and martini.... sounds delightful to me. Join me and we can have a civil discussion sometime.

I'm not a proponent of online arguing. I think, for the most part, that my responses are fairly thoughtful and fair. Aside from the occasional snippy tone, I've been cordial. Not every poster here can say that.


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 Post subject: Re: horses
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:27 am 
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springboro wrote:
walaa wrote:
No one goes to the other one, hence the reason people post it here.


Then perhaps this is a good indicator of interest? Or training of people who read this area.

Those of you who die on every cross when you see some unhappy situation can all join each other in holding hands in the HORSES IN NEED section and hold a prayer vigil and foment each other into action.


Perhaps the emotion is coming from you. The heat coming off your words is palpable. Well, I'm back to USC board where people there do actually discuss a variety of things without a whole lot of emotion, except maybe when talking about players. :wink: I guess that's what team players do--work as a team.


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 Post subject: Re: horses
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:34 am 
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springboro wrote:
walaa wrote:
No one goes to the other one, hence the reason people post it here.


Then perhaps this is a good indicator of interest? Or training of people who read this area.

Those of you who die on every cross when you see some unhappy situation can all join each other in holding hands in the HORSES IN NEED section and hold a prayer vigil and foment each other into action.

I find that every single time someone brings up rescue it just turns into an emotional and ugly exchange that brings no resolution.

I prefer to save what local horses I can and do the things which I can accomplish.



And again, that is why this convenient HORSES IN NEED section was created. Use it please.

Now, about that steak and martini.... sounds delightful to me. Join me and we can have a civil discussion sometime.

I'm not a proponent of online arguing. I think, for the most part, that my responses are fairly thoughtful and fair. Aside from the occasional snippy tone, I've been cordial. Not every poster here can say that.




Its not fair that this post be moved when it was just a general post re a horse seizure not horses in need . They are not in need. They are taking care of now. But in the general section posts there are several posts that dont belong there for real...... Even ones that youv'e replied to springboro....Like posts re breeding/stallion...There are others that are posted re stalliuons . Isnt there a stallion section?????????


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:30 am 
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Bunty Lawless asked:

Quote:
Are they private or government? Why did it take 5 months to get help for these horses, do you know?


The three organizations I'm aware of being involved with this seizure, True Blue, T-Bar and Bluebonnet are private and (I may be incorrect here) I believe that T-Bar and True Blue are parts of the same organization. True Blue is an all volunteer/no paid staff, totally donation dependant no-kill rescue/re-homing shelter for pets based in Brenham. T-Bar.org is the equine/other large animals rehabilitation farm associated with True Blue. Bluebonnet is another similar organization out of the Brenham Tx. area. I'm not sure if Bluebonent is related or not.

5 Months? I may have missed this - did not read or note where it took five months for the animals to be seized and removed from premises but please read on as to what I did read.

As I understand the events re: this seizure - and this is from researching/reading various news articles posted on the internet - True Blue and/or Bluebonnet received an anonymous tip. They contacted the horses' owner after receiving the tip and as I understand it tried to work out a solution with the owner's cooperation to begin feeding/caring for the horses while trying to find responsible placements for them. I'm not sure if anyone from True Blue/etc. had actually been invited upon the premises by the owner at this point and it is private land. Unless someone is willing to swear out an affidavit that they've witnessed animal abuse/neglect to the authorities no one has the right to go on that property without the owner's permission. Whether it was volunteers from True Blue/etc. or the Hopkins County Animal Resuce authorities that first went on the land I'm not sure but upon seeing the deplorable condition many (all?) the horses were in and the total neglect of their upkeep (and perhaps - as reported by at least one newspaper - after the owner refused to voluntarily accept the placement of their horses in the care/ownership of others) the rescue/rehabilitation and re-homing organizations were working with the authorities to get the horses off the premises, evaluated as to their condition/needs and placed where those needs would be met. It was with the authority's blessings that True Blue/etc. went in with several trailers/rigs to pick up the large number of animals that were under the laws temporarily entrusted to their care. There is a judicial Hearing scheduled to take place Tuesday, following the Memorial Day weekend, in Hopkins County. At that time it is my understanding that the Hopkins Co. Animal Welfare officers will make their allegations/charges against the owner before a Judge, presenting evidence to substantiate their claims and recommending that the entire herd's ownership be transferred to the rescue organizations that have taken on their care and the cost of returning them to good health. A fine for each horse will be recommended and a daily cost per horse assessment for their continuing care will likely be presented for the Judge's approval to assess against the owner. The owner will have the opportunity to answer as to the County officials allegations and the opportunity to both present their own evidence as to 'why' the horse(s) are in such poor care and/or to challenge the sufficiency/accuracy of the county authorities' evidence/evaluations and opinions. The Judge has the discretion to rule as he/she sees fit under the circumstances within the constraints of applicable law after weighing the evidence/testimony submitted during that Hearing. I've seen in various seizure situations where the Judge has ordered the seized animals returned to the owner's premises and care but with the provisio that the owner work with the county authorities and whomever else the Judge appoints to check the animals' ongoing care and condition with a future date for reporting back to the Judge as to progress/lack thereof. I've seen in other cases where the Judge rules in favor of the confiscation of the seized animals and transfers ownership to the rescue organizations subject to the owner paying all assessed fines and costs for their rehabilitation and care + fines but where if the owner pays all of that and swears on oath that they will not neglect the animals going forward, that they will permit regular inspections by the authorities, etc. they are returned. I've seen situations where most of the animals seized are indeed confiscated by the Judge but one or more that are not in serious condition are returned with Court ordered supervision/report backs as to their wellbeing and I've seen where all the animals that were seized are confiscated/ownership transferred to the rescues for their continued care/ultimate re-homing. granted. The Judge will weigh the entirety of the allegations and may also make a judgment as to individual animals based on their condition as to whether the charges should apply to all. While the 'taking' of someone's private property by governmental authorities is not taken lightly in Texas neither is the abuse/neglect of livestock/pets taken lightly. If the various vets and experienced equine rescuers documenting and assisting with the evaluation and scoring of these horses' condition can document and support the need for their confiscation and transfer of ownership under the law it will likely take place. (Often the D.A./County Animal Welfare authorities will try to work out an agreement prior to the Hearing where if the owner voluntarily gives up their claims to the horses' ownership they will recommend that the Judge lessen the fines and that the animal cruelty/negligence charges be dropped subject to a probationary compliance period during which the owner does not acquire/neglect any horses.)


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 Post subject: Re: horses
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:56 am 
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Bunty Lawless wrote:
Perhaps the emotion is coming from you. The heat coming off your words is palpable. Well, I'm back to USC board where people there do actually discuss a variety of things without a whole lot of emotion, except maybe when talking about players. :wink: I guess that's what team players do--work as a team.


I was trying to be a little funny there... apparently I failed. Seriously, I'm not emotionally involved in this thread at all. I learned a little bit about human nature in the entire Gerry debacle and have vowed not to even get started in this sort of drama.

So, my work here is done... have at it. I'm going to say we'll have to agree to disagree.


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