Pedigree Query

Quasi-Thoroughbred Database___A NEW IDEA
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Author:  Jorge [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Quasi-Thoroughbred Database___A NEW IDEA

Would really appreciate your opinions on the idea that follows:

But before reading it, let me tell you that
I already wrote to "Roguelet" sharing the subject.

"Roguelet" wrote me back and is suggesting me the following:

"You should start a thread about this in the "Pedigree Side" forum under "Input From Members." At least one site owner who is updating/upgrading the entire site ("Lizard,") is participating and checking that forum for ideas... he would probably LOVE to have that input! Posting there would also allow input from other members as well." :)

Here is the idea:

"The following topic ... &start=150
introduces an important matter which I think may prove worth a serious analysis by the Del Mar staff. It may have the potential to create a breakthrough worldwide paradigm for the benefice of the Del Mar site. Here is the idea:

What about adding a third database to the Del Mar site, for example:

01. Thoroughbred database
02. Allbreed database
03. Quasi-Thoroughbred database

devoted exclusively to registering equines with three or less non-Thoroughbred ancestors within their first five generations? In other words, how bout creating a database reserved exclusively for equines who are heading their way into becoming a bona-fide Thoroughbred after eventually complying with the rigours of the Weatherbys 8-generation rule?

To begin with, the Quasi-Thoroughbred database can be initiated by transferring every “Allbreed” equine who actually carries 3 or less non-Thoroughbred equines within their first 5 generations. Many of the cases are already within the “Allbreed’ database but since the “Allbreed” is open to almost every other case, it is not that useful as a formal sanctioned tool of reference for achieving an eventual accepted Thoroughbred.

I am sure this idea can harvest huge support from many Quasi-Thoroughbred breeders worldwide.

I would really appreciate to first receive your candid opinions and feedback. I would really like to know if you would consider posing this idea to the other moderators.


Author:  Pan Zareta [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

My first comment would be that Weatherbys is not the governing authority for advancing non-TBs to TB status. The International Stud Book Committee is and seven generations of TB crosses alone are not going to induce them to grant vehicle status (get/produce eligible for registry as TB) to a NTB. They want evidence for succesful racing performance v. reg. TBs, something that can be achieved only in those ISBC member nations where the Rules of Racing allow NTBs to compete with TBs. The only vehicle horse I can think of is Clantime GB 1981. Can you cite other examples?

Obviously, there are a great many horses worldwide with three or fewer NTB crosses in their pedigrees but, realistically, only an exceedingly tiny fraction of them and their progeny stand a chance of advancement into a TB registry. So few that rather than creating a new database I think it might be more efficient for those that are indeed competing with TBs to be entered in the db here. It already includes 'quasi TBs' such as the North American 'Appendix TBs' (foaled 1893-1932 and registered with the JC for purposes of racing with TBs but ineligible by number of TB crosses for inclusion in the American Stud Book) and NTBs that have raced in other countries.

I'd also offer that any database 'spun off' from the ABDB would require an immense amount of checking and revision before it could be considered a reasonably reliable reference tool.

Author:  angrovestud [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:33 am ]
Post subject: 

I am interested in this topic, but i do feel that NTB registered horses can race and breed in many countries already, around 11 worldwide we a a stud have already been placed twice in races against normal GSB registered horses.
apart from myself I do not know any active breeders doing the same as myself anywhere in the UK or Europe we are quiet alone in this task ad we are only doing it to ad a color Tobiano as its is said in colour circles to be the king of the colour genes as you can breed for Homozygous Tobiano as we have.
There are no undesirable gene traites assocated with the gene.
Embryo lethalitity, deafness or incomplete colon,
I personally think you would need many more breeders wanting to do the same thing or similar.
Weatherbys conducted research recently and discovered that the NTR stallions did not contribute to the horses bred to race and so the discontinued the registration of the foundation V11 Stallions this year 2013, the research showed just 1% of the stallions registered had runners and that was our stallion, luckly we registered our foundation stallion in 2007 and we have two stallion sons that are already in the NTR one of the sons has his own son our next racehorse and he to will be registered as a stallion which is still allowed the other stallion son now belongs to someone else and no doubt they will also continue to breed.

there are only around five coloured stallions in the UK currently in the NTR register and 3 of them are OAP now! if I had a half bred oloured stallion I could no longer have it vetted and registered as a foundation horse, we were lucky to get in when we did !

Author:  Jorge [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

I have nothing against having isolated equines such as "Clantime GB 1981" within the Thoroughbred database of Del Mar.
But if we were to enter an increasing number of equines such as him, then I know many people will knit their eyebrows in dissaproval which is understandable. That's the reason why, for the sake of the future value of these "Quasi-Thoroughbreds", I would prefer the creation of a separate database, no matter if the number of entrees is scarse. I am not against
cases like "Clantime" gaining access to the Thoroughbred side, but I wouldn't like to read connoisseurs and other pedigree scholars belittletling
our valuable Thoroughbred database because of atypical entrees.

A compromise happy medium point can be to permit the access of "Quasi-Thoroughbreds" within the Thoroughbred database but with certain special typo characters for the non-Thoroughbreds, but frankly it may prove troublesome for everyone unless someone comes with an extraordinary method.

Thats the reason why I would prefer a separate database. In such a database, cases like the already among us "racing-tobianos", "racing-appaloosas", and eventual "racing-champagnes" and many more can be inserted enroute to eventual more official acceptance.

Thanks for your participation.

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