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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:28 pm 
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I've been working on a project involving the American Stud Books (1-3) and have come across some entries that I find confusing. If anyone has any info (i.e. are they fixed in later volumes, is there another source that makes it clearer, etc.) I'd appreciate it.

Are Nancy Warren and Sarah Warren (both by imp. Phil Brown, out of a mare by Young Steel) the same mare? Nancy is in vol. 2 page 139 and Sarah is in vol 2 page 289. I ask because they appear to have the same foals, Boabdil by Don Juan and Cosmos by Thornton's Beauregard/Beauregarde. Which name would be most appropriate to combine their produce under if they are the same mare?

There are two Don Juan's, same color, same foaling year (1839) both by imp. Priam. One's dam is the Old Ledbetter Mare by imported Diomed; the other's dam is Rosemary by imported Diomed. Are these really two different horses?

Other colts with the same foaling date and same sire (like Don Juan) are:
    Daniel Webster (1839), by imp. Priam (Fairy by Herod/Fairy by Sir Albert)
    Eutaw (1837) by imp. Chateau Margaux (Amanda by Sir Charles/Mare by Sir Charles)
    Gayoso (1829) by Rinaldo (Gravenstine (Orange) by Ringgold (called also Cooper's Messenger) son of imported Messenger./ Orange by Ringgold (Cooper's Messenger).) -
    Hero (1859) by Lexington (Lady Sovereign by imp. Sovereign. / Zilla by imp. Sovereign).
    Lafayette (1827) by Kosciusko (Mare by Virginius (son of imported Diomed)./ Virginia (Coquette) by Virginius.)
    Lord Byron (1820) by Sir Archy (Bango Seib (called Orange Girl) by imported Bedford./Orange Girl by imported Bedford.)
    Mark Richards (1827) by John Richards (Amanda by Bond's Revenge./ Lady Vixen by Bond's Revenge.)
    Odom's Scythian (1861) by imp. Scythian. (Lucy Brooks by imported Albion./ Mare by imported Leviathan.)
    Pineywoods (1867) by Planet (Bet Arlington by Arlington. / Mare by Arlington (son of Boston).)
    Prince Albert (1839) by imp. Margrave (Amanda by Sir Charles/Mare by Sir Charles)
    Randolph (1827) by Rinaldo (Ophelia by Ridgeley's Little Medley. / Young Ophelia by Little Medley.)
    Sir Aaron (1826) by Tormentor (Amanda by Bond's Revenge./ Lady Vixen by Bond's Revenge.)
    Tramp (1833) by imp. Barefoot. (Maid of the Mill by Duroc. / Miller's Maid by Duroc.)
    Hall's Union (1777) by imp. Slim/by imp. Slim or Sprightly (Mare by imported Figure. / Harmony Mare by imported Figure.)
    Valdemare (1864) by Suwarrow (Mare by Geo. Elliott. / Miss Rover by Geo. Elliott.)
    Vapor (1877) by Voltigeur (Laura by Red Horse (son of Prolific). / Lute (Sue Watts) by son of Prolific (Red Horse).)

In some cases it's pretty obvious that the dam has two entries, but in others it's not, like Amanda and Lady Vixen by Bond's Revenge. If they are the same mare, which name should the foals be listed under?

Also, there's this horse who seems to have the same dam, been foaled the same year, but different sires.
The Sleeper (1836) by Cooper's Messenger, dam Flora by Schamp's Grand Seignor.
The Sleeper (1836) by imported Sarpedon, dam Mare (called Flora) by Grand Seignor.

Any help would be appreciated.



PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:37 am 
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Bobadil's entry 'Mares under their Sires' section ASB5:861 gives his dam as Sarah Warren. Other than that, I haven't found clarification but suspect that N Warren & S Warren were same mare.

Re. Don Juan - I'm guessing that you mean the entries ASB1:644 (produce of Cockerill's Old Ledbetter Mare by *Diomed, FF A39) and ASB2:255 (produce of Rosemary [Southall's] by *Diomed, FF 21) for a ch c Don Juan 1828 by Timoleon? The earliest evidence for an 1828 ch c by Timoleon called Don Juan is in ATR v.2 1830 (pps. 196,310). His dam is given there as Rosemary. Other than Bruce's entry I've no evidence that the Old Ledbetter Mare also foaled a ch c Don Juan to Timoleon in 1828.

You have a pm.

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