D.I.O. 1813 GB, need help with female line

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cissiny
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D.I.O. 1813 GB, need help with female line

Postby cissiny » Thu May 10, 2012 6:52 am

Hi all, I am trying to figure out the female line of the stallion D.I.O. (not in the database, have not figured out how to enter his name - with or without the . ?). Here's the info in Stud Book Francais Volume I:

D.I.O.
Chestnut, born in GB 1813.
His sire: Whitworth
His dam: Hambletonian mare
Whitworth by Agonistes out of Jupiter mare (out of Highflyer mare)
Hambletonian mare by Hambletonian out of Sir Peter mare (i.e. Sir Peter Teazle)
Standing at Haras du Pin from 1818 to 1826, standing at D.R. d'Aurillac from 1827 to 1831. Died in 1832 (when covering a mare?).

I am not sure about which of the Sir Peter Teazle mares that is his granddam, it might not even be one of the mares already in the database? It would be great if I could figure out which family he belongs to... Does anyone know? He was used in France, many offspring, pure TBs as well as Anglo-Arabs and Demi-Sang (Warmbloods).

Thanks in advance!

Cissi in Sweden

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Postby xfactor fan » Thu May 10, 2012 11:23 am

He's in the sporthorse database. Only 3 offspring listed. This might be the place to add horses, as they also have warmbloods not just Thoroughbreds.

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Postby xfactor fan » Thu May 10, 2012 11:30 am

Vinyridge posted this on another topic.

Do you know about the two databases mentioned? The french one might help quite a bit.


European Produce Records. Brisnet publication from JC data that is supposed to have European mares and their foals from 1950 to, in my case, 2007. I was looking up some of the German horses with North American mares in their pedigrees here, went to the JC and they weren't there, went to the EPR and they weren't there, then went to Parlo's database, Galopp Seiger, and found them. They raced in Germany and either won or placed in high class races. Even found a chaser mare who raced up to 4600 meters. She was a winner and placer.

Galopp Seiger is a wonderful database and has the actual race records for the horses, as does France Galop.

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cissiny
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Postby cissiny » Thu May 10, 2012 1:11 pm

Hi xfactor fan,

xfactor fan wrote:He's in the sporthorse database. Only 3 offspring listed. This might be the place to add horses, as they also have warmbloods not just Thoroughbreds.


Well, I was actually one of the founding members of that database... So far, I have 8 offspring in my own private database (which I just recently started to build). The sporthorse database has no more info than I already have, and I wonder why he should not be here? He is without a doubt a pure TB, there are probably a few pure TB offspring although I only have AA and DS myself so far. Most of all I'd like to get his female line complete, would love to know which family he comes from. Although I am a team member of sporthorse-data, I know that there are quite a few errors, when it comes to TBs I trust the info in this database more than the info at sporthorse-data.

I am very careful not to enter any horses to this database (pedigreequery I mean, not my own private database of course) that I am not certain that they are pure TBs. Pedigree research has been my passion for over 30 years, I am very careful/thorough with my research.

Best wishes,
Cissi in Sweden

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cissiny
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Postby cissiny » Thu May 10, 2012 1:25 pm

Hi again xfactor fan,

Those databases are great - the problem right now is that I am entering (in my own Tesio database) horses born before 1860, from an old French book. So, a little bit too old for those databases :).

Thanks for the tip anyway!

Best wishes,
Cissi

xfactor fan wrote:Vinyridge posted this on another topic.

Do you know about the two databases mentioned? The french one might help quite a bit.

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Postby xfactor fan » Thu May 10, 2012 1:29 pm

This database if full of errors. Trust Equineline.com more. Or at least verify with equineline.com before accepting anything posted here.

Love the Sporthorse database. Congratulations, you and your team have done a great job.

Perhaps the best way to find the family of D.I.O would be to have a female member of the family tested for mtDNA. Records back that far are not accurate. And mares were often not named or their breeding was not recorded.

Good luck.

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Re: D.I.O. 1813 GB, need help with female line

Postby Pan Zareta » Thu May 10, 2012 4:28 pm

cissiny wrote:Hi all, I am trying to figure out the female line of the stallion D.I.O. (not in the database, have not figured out how to enter his name - with or without the . ?). Here's the info in Stud Book Francais Volume I:

D.I.O.
Chestnut, born in GB 1813.
His sire: Whitworth
His dam: Hambletonian mare
Whitworth by Agonistes out of Jupiter mare (out of Highflyer mare)
Hambletonian mare by Hambletonian out of Sir Peter mare (i.e. Sir Peter Teazle)
Standing at Haras du Pin from 1818 to 1826, standing at D.R. d'Aurillac from 1827 to 1831. Died in 1832 (when covering a mare?).

I am not sure about which of the Sir Peter Teazle mares that is his granddam, it might not even be one of the mares already in the database? It would be great if I could figure out which family he belongs to... Does anyone know? He was used in France, many offspring, pure TBs as well as Anglo-Arabs and Demi-Sang (Warmbloods).


D I O has been entered in the db here, info from Skinner (1834, p. 639) as given in the 1st edition of GSB vol. 2. If there are any revisions in subsequent editions of Vol. 2 I'll let you know.

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Re: D.I.O. 1813 GB, need help with female line

Postby cissiny » Fri May 11, 2012 3:53 am

Thank you so much Pan Zareta! :D

Pan Zareta wrote:D I O has been entered in the db here, info from Skinner (1834, p. 639) as given in the 1st edition of GSB vol. 2. If there are any revisions in subsequent editions of Vol. 2 I'll let you know.


Just wonderful, I did not have his dam or granddam in my own database, but I did have a sister of his granddam (Heiress I think?) so it was easy just to connect him there :)

I might be over-ambitious, but I am plowing through a bunch of old books, trying to get every pedigree complete back to before 1800 (not so easy with other breeds than TBs), having a few books around all the time plus some browser windows, trying to double check if not every horse atleast any suspicious ones (odd YOB, horses exported etc).

I'll add the info from the French studbook about D I O :)

Thanks again!

Best wishes,
Cissi in Sweden

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cissiny
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Postby cissiny » Fri May 11, 2012 4:13 am

Hi again dear xfactor fan (love your nick BTW - I find xfactor to be a very interesting subject and as the "sporthorse nut" I think it is of importance also in showjumping and eventing)

xfactor fan wrote:This database if full of errors. Trust Equineline.com more. Or at least verify with equineline.com before accepting anything posted here.

Love the Sporthorse database. Congratulations, you and your team have done a great job.

Perhaps the best way to find the family of D.I.O would be to have a female member of the family tested for mtDNA. Records back that far are not accurate. And mares were often not named or their breeding was not recorded.

Good luck.


Oh, thanks for your kind words about the sporthorse database! It is indeed the work of Hugh McMahon, but I and a few other members contributed many years ago with our own Tesio databases (I've got a completely new one now, building up from scratch). There was quite a few errors/doublets at the start, due to the merging of the databases. I think we sorted that out quite well. But the big problem, that has caused many errors, is that any registered member can add/edit a horse (unless it's locked) and there is no automatic check before the horses are added. That, in my opinion, is a great advantage of this database. I don't mind waiting a few days before added horses show up, since I know that additions are checked.

I have seen a few errors here, have corrected some, in most cases I have a couple of browser windows plus a few books around when working with my own database. Really trying to be thorough, but you are absolutely right that old records are not always trustworthy... In the worst case you have two different versions of a pedigree in two different books, pull up a third and you get a third version ;). And don't get me started about multiple stallions with the same name used at fairly the same time in a region... Why all the Achill and Brillant in Holstein? (in that case, old books with studbook numbers for each horse is really useful...)

A good thing is that I have quite a good memory when it comes to pedigrees - it certainly helps... Oh, and then we have the issue of spelling errors... In France, you find Van Dyck and Van Dyck Junior now and then... Could not find them here, but kept checking and oh well their "real" names (at least in GB) was Vandyke and Vandyke Junior... There is also a difference between this database and sporthorse-data as the latter one shows horses with similar names aswell. Most of the time, it's a good thing, but it also causes problems (long story)...

Speaking of useful links, I have also used Australian Stud Book, I think I've lost my password though (have not used it for a long time). Can be good just to double-check pedigrees :).

Best wishes,
Cissi

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Postby vineyridge » Fri May 11, 2012 7:33 am

The New Zealand Studbook online is excellent, also, and the people who run it are very kind and willing to answer questions about their horses.
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