Hi. I have a 3 year old filly (Forever Brilliant) that's not going to make it back from surgery on her cannon bone. She was very fast, winning a MSW at Gulfstream last February by 9 lengths. Also, she was twice stakes placed, and eaned just over $100k. She hit the board in her first 6 races, before running poorly in her last start.
Forever Brilliant's female family is good and quite current. She has two stakes winning siblings, and a two year old full brother that looks promising. Her problem is that she is in the first crop of Straight Man, and he has been a flop as a stud, at least so far. Forever Brilliant has been his best earner. She is a correct and powerfully built filly.
If possible, I'd like to breed her in Florida, and want to stay under $15,000. I plan on racing her foals. Does anyone have any suggestions? thanks a lot.
mating advice Forever Brilliant
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
Forever Brilliant suggestions
I would consider these stallions
Peace Rules by Jules-Hold To Fashion by Hold Your Peace 19 starts 9 wins $3,084,278 line breeding Halo 4x5 and Ballade 4x5 through siblings Devil's Bag and Saint Ballado and line breeding Never Bend 4x5
Stands at Vinery for $15,000 in Ocala
Texas Glitter by Glitterman-Come On Texas by Apalachee 37 starts 11 wins $826,077 line breeding Round Table 4x5 and Bold Ruler 4x5
Stands at Signature Studs $4,000 in Reddick Florida
Sligo Bay by Sadler's Wells-Angelic Song by Halo 17 starts 4 wins $484,695 Hollywood Turf Cup line breeding Ballade 3x4 and Halo 3x4 through siblings Saint Ballado and Angelic Song and line breeding Lalun 5x5 through Bold Reason and Never Bend and line breeding Almahmoud 5x5x6x8 He stands for $10,000 at Adena Springs South in Williston Florida
If it was me I would go with Sligo Bay
Keith
Peace Rules by Jules-Hold To Fashion by Hold Your Peace 19 starts 9 wins $3,084,278 line breeding Halo 4x5 and Ballade 4x5 through siblings Devil's Bag and Saint Ballado and line breeding Never Bend 4x5
Stands at Vinery for $15,000 in Ocala
Texas Glitter by Glitterman-Come On Texas by Apalachee 37 starts 11 wins $826,077 line breeding Round Table 4x5 and Bold Ruler 4x5
Stands at Signature Studs $4,000 in Reddick Florida
Sligo Bay by Sadler's Wells-Angelic Song by Halo 17 starts 4 wins $484,695 Hollywood Turf Cup line breeding Ballade 3x4 and Halo 3x4 through siblings Saint Ballado and Angelic Song and line breeding Lalun 5x5 through Bold Reason and Never Bend and line breeding Almahmoud 5x5x6x8 He stands for $10,000 at Adena Springs South in Williston Florida
If it was me I would go with Sligo Bay
Keith
If you plan on racing, Id go with a proven commodity. Exchange Rate (Danzig-Outflanker-Regiment connection) would be an idea. I really dislike breeding an unproven mare to an unproven stallion, if you can help it. If youre willing to pay that much for a stud fee, you might as well go with a horse that is producing well. Most all new stallions will be unsuccessful as a producer of runners. Might as well give you mare all the help you can.
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chicago78
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thanks for the suggestions. I agree that inbreeding through Ballade is an excellent option with this filly. I think that both Sligo Bay and Peace Rules will get huge opportunities in Florida. Sligo Bay has a beautiful pedigree, being by Sadler's Wells and coming from the same family as Rahy, Devil's Bag and Saint Ballado, the ladder one having started off in Florida.
I do like Peace Rules for Forever Brilliant because he was a sound, very high class horse, and would match well both physically and pedigree wise with her.
Texas Glitter, though I like him, probably isn't going to be my choice for her, because I feel like I need to add a little stamina to the pedigree.
A horse that I'm surprised never gets talked about on this board is Macho Uno. A BC Juvenile winner and a half brother to Awesome Again, standing at a much lower price than him. Maybe not the best matchup with this mare pedigree wise, but I think he's going to be a good stud.
I do like Peace Rules for Forever Brilliant because he was a sound, very high class horse, and would match well both physically and pedigree wise with her.
Texas Glitter, though I like him, probably isn't going to be my choice for her, because I feel like I need to add a little stamina to the pedigree.
A horse that I'm surprised never gets talked about on this board is Macho Uno. A BC Juvenile winner and a half brother to Awesome Again, standing at a much lower price than him. Maybe not the best matchup with this mare pedigree wise, but I think he's going to be a good stud.
Hi Chicago78,
They aren't in Florida, but I like the following two stallion with your mare:
Congaree
Congaree has the great advantage of having run some VERY fast times at a Mile and 7f in his racing career and the pedigree advantage he has with your mare is primarily that he is bred on the exact same Mari's Book/Blushing Groom cross as Goulash, the dam of Saint Ballado's EASILY number one offspring: Ashado.
(Also, note that the Saint Ballado/Mari's Book cross, besides being proven in Ashado, is backed up by the success of Saint Ballado when he was crossed with a mare descended of Queen Sucree, who was the Full Sister of Mari's Book's damsire Maribeau.)
(Also also note that the Saint Ballado / Blushing Groom cross found in Ashado is a reverse of the Blushing Groom / Glorious Song [a full sister of Saint Ballado] cross found in the very good Miler and Excellent Sire Rahy.)
Devil His Due
Besides being a very good sire of racehorses, Devil His Due shares the strong Halo / Rasie A Cup nick found in your mare (in my opinion doubling up on a nick is a good ides, especially if you can get the nick doubled up through two successful examples thereof and certainly Devil His Due is a successfule example fo the nick and your mare is in my opinion above average at least).
BTW, I call the Halo/Raise A Cup cross a nick largely because it is found in:
A. Devil His Due, the NUMBER ONE racing and siring descendant of Raise A Cup.
and...
B. I Ain't Bluffing, a Multiple G1W and the number one offspring of his sire Pine Bluff.
Also, it notable that besides being found in these 2 G1Ws, this cross is found in 3 additional Graded Stakes Winners even though (relative to oppurtunity as measured by a piece of Probability Computing Computer Software I have), it actually would've done well just to get a single G1W.
Also of course this Devil His Due-Forever Brilliant mating would get you the inbreeding to Ballade through high quality full siblings you crave.
-llbean[/b]
They aren't in Florida, but I like the following two stallion with your mare:
Congaree
Congaree has the great advantage of having run some VERY fast times at a Mile and 7f in his racing career and the pedigree advantage he has with your mare is primarily that he is bred on the exact same Mari's Book/Blushing Groom cross as Goulash, the dam of Saint Ballado's EASILY number one offspring: Ashado.
(Also, note that the Saint Ballado/Mari's Book cross, besides being proven in Ashado, is backed up by the success of Saint Ballado when he was crossed with a mare descended of Queen Sucree, who was the Full Sister of Mari's Book's damsire Maribeau.)
(Also also note that the Saint Ballado / Blushing Groom cross found in Ashado is a reverse of the Blushing Groom / Glorious Song [a full sister of Saint Ballado] cross found in the very good Miler and Excellent Sire Rahy.)
Devil His Due
Besides being a very good sire of racehorses, Devil His Due shares the strong Halo / Rasie A Cup nick found in your mare (in my opinion doubling up on a nick is a good ides, especially if you can get the nick doubled up through two successful examples thereof and certainly Devil His Due is a successfule example fo the nick and your mare is in my opinion above average at least).
BTW, I call the Halo/Raise A Cup cross a nick largely because it is found in:
A. Devil His Due, the NUMBER ONE racing and siring descendant of Raise A Cup.
and...
B. I Ain't Bluffing, a Multiple G1W and the number one offspring of his sire Pine Bluff.
Also, it notable that besides being found in these 2 G1Ws, this cross is found in 3 additional Graded Stakes Winners even though (relative to oppurtunity as measured by a piece of Probability Computing Computer Software I have), it actually would've done well just to get a single G1W.
Also of course this Devil His Due-Forever Brilliant mating would get you the inbreeding to Ballade through high quality full siblings you crave.
-llbean[/b]
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chicago78
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Thanks for the help on this, everybody. Ilbean, I had thought of Congaree for this mare before I decided to keep her in Florida. I may revisit him next year or the year after. After reviewing everything, I decided the best horse for her is Peace Rules. He was a very good, sound horse, could run on both surfaces, and the inbreeding to Ballade was a priority for me.
What I find interesting is how similar the racing careers of Congaree and Peace Rules were. Both horses hit the board in the derby and came back to be good older horses, which is very rare these days. Both were in the hands of top trainers, and neither was thought of as the best in the barn. Baffert had Point Given in 2001, and Congaree was pretty much in his shadow (though he won the Wood Memorial.) He became a very good older horse, winning the Cigar Mile twice and the Hollywood Gold Cup, and overall won 5 grade ones at 4 different distances. He is by far the best horse by his sire, Arazi.
Peace Rules was similar, in my opinion. He won the Louisiana Derby and Blue Grass, but was always in the shadow of Empire Maker until after the Belmont, when he went on to win the Haskell and run second in the Travers. He too is by far the best horse by his sire, Jules.
What I find interesting is how similar the racing careers of Congaree and Peace Rules were. Both horses hit the board in the derby and came back to be good older horses, which is very rare these days. Both were in the hands of top trainers, and neither was thought of as the best in the barn. Baffert had Point Given in 2001, and Congaree was pretty much in his shadow (though he won the Wood Memorial.) He became a very good older horse, winning the Cigar Mile twice and the Hollywood Gold Cup, and overall won 5 grade ones at 4 different distances. He is by far the best horse by his sire, Arazi.
Peace Rules was similar, in my opinion. He won the Louisiana Derby and Blue Grass, but was always in the shadow of Empire Maker until after the Belmont, when he went on to win the Haskell and run second in the Travers. He too is by far the best horse by his sire, Jules.
Im not sure that inbreeding to Ballade would be a good thing. I don't know about her, but many of her foals had crooked knees, which would make me think she herself was. The faults that she produced have produced on thru her sons, not only her Halo sons but also her Northern Dancer son, so I would think theres a pretty strong gene for that particular fault.
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chicago78
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I'm not sure. Forever Brilliant is a very correct, strong filly. And I like to try female family inbreeding with my mares, and Ballade is certainly the best mare that shows up in her pedigree. Jules, the sire of Peace Rules, had a nice horse out of a Saint Ballado (the sire of Straight Man, Forever Brilliant's sire) mare, named Distinct Vision. That horse was inbred 4X3 to Ballade, and the resulting foal out of Forever Brilliant will be 5X4, so it's not as close.
Other Stallions to consider
Other stallions to consider
Pure Precision by Montbrook-Al's Helen by Distinctive winner of $186,550 When crossed with Forever Brilliant you would be line breeding Brilliant Melody 3x3 . Brilliant Melody is the dam of graded stakes winners Straight Man and Al's Helen. $4,000 Stud Fee at Lou-Roe Farm
Roar Of The Tiger by Storm Cat-Mariah's Storm by Rahy With this cross you would be line breeding Halo and Ballade 4x5 through siblings Saint Ballado and Glorious Song $5,000 Stud Fee Walmac South
Blazonry by Hennessy-Altair by Alydar winner of Lazaro Barrera Memorial S.-Gr. II With this cross you would get 5x5 Cosmah through Halo and Queen Sucree. You would also get 5x5 On-and-On through Sweet Tooth and Go On And On. You would get 6x6 Real Delight through Spring Sunshine and Plum Cake. You would get 6x6x6x7 Almahmoud. You would also get 4x5x6 Northern Dancer. $5,000 Stud Fee Hopewell Farm in Kentucky
Powerscourt by Sadler's Wells-Rainbow Lake by Rainbow Quest $12,500 Stud Fee at Ashford Stud in Kentucky With this cross you would get 5x5 Lalun through Bold Reason and Never Bend. You would also get 5x6 Almahmoud through Cosmah and Natalma.
Keith
Pure Precision by Montbrook-Al's Helen by Distinctive winner of $186,550 When crossed with Forever Brilliant you would be line breeding Brilliant Melody 3x3 . Brilliant Melody is the dam of graded stakes winners Straight Man and Al's Helen. $4,000 Stud Fee at Lou-Roe Farm
Roar Of The Tiger by Storm Cat-Mariah's Storm by Rahy With this cross you would be line breeding Halo and Ballade 4x5 through siblings Saint Ballado and Glorious Song $5,000 Stud Fee Walmac South
Blazonry by Hennessy-Altair by Alydar winner of Lazaro Barrera Memorial S.-Gr. II With this cross you would get 5x5 Cosmah through Halo and Queen Sucree. You would also get 5x5 On-and-On through Sweet Tooth and Go On And On. You would get 6x6 Real Delight through Spring Sunshine and Plum Cake. You would get 6x6x6x7 Almahmoud. You would also get 4x5x6 Northern Dancer. $5,000 Stud Fee Hopewell Farm in Kentucky
Powerscourt by Sadler's Wells-Rainbow Lake by Rainbow Quest $12,500 Stud Fee at Ashford Stud in Kentucky With this cross you would get 5x5 Lalun through Bold Reason and Never Bend. You would also get 5x6 Almahmoud through Cosmah and Natalma.
Keith