Deputy Minister inbreeding

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:42 am

Anyone aware of any efforts to inbreed with Deputy Minister? Success or failure?

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:30 pm

I have been advised by G1 Goldmine that this has proven very unsuccessful.

Domino · Postby **Domino** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:27 am

I may be off base here, but I don't think this inbreeding has been tried a whole lot, so it may be too early to label it as unsuccessful.

Deputy Minister is still only a generation back on the sireline of most of his descendents. His sons are just beginning to get their own sons to the breeding shed (Ghostzapper, Midas Eyes, Medallist, Ten Most Wanted, etc.) in the last couple of years. Hypo-matings with grandsons of DM place him in the 3rd gen, which is the cut off line for a lot of breeders, in terms of inbreeding up close.

I would say once his grandsons have some foals hitting the track, we'll get a more accurate indicator of whether inbreeding to DM can be successful. Just my take on it.

Bill from WA · Postby **Bill from WA** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:33 pm

I agree with you Domino. Way too early to make a judgement.

Bill

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:28 pm

I am sure you are right, Domino. This had occured to me almost as soon as I submitted the post. However, Goldmine reveals that his father, and Northern Dancer's son, Vice Regent also has no G1 winners with inbreeding to him. Is he, Vice Regent, old enough for this to be significant?

Domino · Postby **Domino** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:20 pm

Vice Regent is definetly old enough to have been inbred to, whether or not it happened in any number is something I'm just not sure of. But clearly, not much to go on there.

Something interesting to point out: while inbreeding to Vice Regent has not produced any graded stakes winners, crossing Vice Regent on his full brother, Viceregal, has produced Gr 1 winners Round Pond and Scotzanna, as well as Gr 2 winner Gentleman Beau, and Gr 3 winner Except for Wanda. Thought that was kind of interesting.

Also of note, Vice Regent and Bold Ruckus are crossed in 3 of the 4 horses listed above. If you pull up a nicking report for Silver Deputy, you will see that he has very high percentages of runners, winners, and stakes winners out of Bold Ruckus mares.

Bill from WA · Postby **Bill from WA** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:09 am

There have been a few decent runners inbred to Vice Regent, most notably Jamaican Champion, A King Is Born (2000) (3x3), who is a winner of 14 races in 17 starts. Other stakes quality runners are, Millashand (2x4), Riviera Collen (3x2), and Salty Note (3x3).

Bill

adrienne · Postby **adrienne** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:41 pm

We had an "accidental" inbreeding of Deputy Minister here. Tough Call (by Deputy Minister) out of Effrene (out of a Deputy Minister mare). The two were very physically compatable and the inbreeding must have gotten overlooked.

Unfortunately the foal was stillborn - so we won't know what that would have produced. I won't breed her back to Tough Call though.

~Adrienne

BJ · Postby BJ » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:31 pm

jagger wrote:I am sure you are right, Domino. This had occured to me almost as soon as I submitted the post. However, Goldmine reveals that his father, and Northern Dancer's son, Vice Regent also has no G1 winners with inbreeding to him. Is he, Vice Regent, old enough for this to be significant?

I would think the size of the statistical pool would be the most significant. If there are few progeny from such an inbreeding, one can hardly say it isn't a good Nick. Besides, the most important thing in breeding, is the dam and the sire. The rest is just complimentary or a negative.

quickhorse · Postby **quickhorse** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:49 pm

Domino wrote:Something interesting to point out: while inbreeding to Vice Regent has not produced any graded stakes winners, crossing Vice Regent on his full brother, Viceregal, has produced Gr 1 winners Round Pond and Scotzanna, as well as Gr 2 winner Gentleman Beau, and Gr 3 winner Except for Wanda. Thought that was kind of interesting.

What I think you are seeing there is something called the Rasmussen Factor at work. Basically, Rasmussen believes inbreeding to superior females provides above average results.

I looked into the Rasmussen factor and believe it to be significant. But I also have taken the idea to another level. Round Pond, Scotzanna, and Gentleman Beau are all perfect examples of my theory.

Here is my therory. I have noticed that inbreeding to BOTH a female and male can produce superior results. But inbreeding to 2 individuals, that when THEY were actually mated, produced a superior individual.

For example, Round Pond is inbred to Northern Dancer and Victoria Regina. When they had a foal, they were Viceregal and Vice Regent.

Another is Charismatic. He is inbred to Bold Ruler and Somethingroyal who produced Secretariat.

I did the best I could with my mare Princess Vye. I bred her to Tomorrows Cat and the foal is inbred to Bold Ruler (5x5) and Somethingroyal (5x6), as well as Northern Dancer (4x5).

Pedigree Query