No I can't top this one!

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:41 pm

I was discussing the pedigree of a mare I was looking at with a friend and her mother. I thought the mare was a bit too inbred. She said "betcha can't top this one........" and said it is the great granddam to a mare they have.
Oh my gosh no, I CAN'T top this one :shock:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/miss+chain+link

Postby **Roguelet** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:46 pm

I wonder if that was done on purpose or if it was an "oops"

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:57 pm

Well the stallion has 2 other foals
this is one
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bryans+dandy
looks like that mare was a Gilded Knight again too!
and this one,,,
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bartons+star

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:11 pm

WHAT is the advantage in doing that?
Really...not a rhetorical question, I'm curious.
And if it's an oops, how could it be?
I mean besides a broken fence and no one home at the farm.....

Postby **Roguelet** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:30 pm

I don't know... I was thinking maybe the stallion went through a fence to get to a mare in heat or something... I was just grasping at straws because I can't see doing that on purpose... :lol:

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:35 pm

The dam is a buckskin. The sire's color is not noted. Only thing we can think of is if the stallion was also a buckskin they were trying to get a double dilute foal for the color?

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:34 pm

well they run the risk of getting some double genitalia sets too with that method!
I have a doctor friend who tells me that happened lots in a family of frequently-marrying first cousins.

Lucy · Postby **Lucy** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:47 pm

Looking back a generation....the mare Litte-Cote was bred to her son Cov Heart four times. :shock:

That's a whole lotta 'oopses'. :wink:

Don't know that coat color was a factor at first, as she was a plain chestnut & Cov Heart a plain bay. It wasn't until the third foal - Miss Perrin - that an unusual color popped up. She is actually listed as a 'dun' in the American Stud Book.

Perhaps they then tried to recreate that color through inbreeding - the stallion Rocky Knight came in a plain brown wrapper, but his dam is a full sister to the 'dun' mare. If so, it wasn't much of a success....only Miss Perrin herself produced another that may have been a dilute (though one sister did produce a spontaneous 'roan'...that may have been a sabino or rabicano).

Speaking of Rocky Knight....yes, I can 'top this'. Ladies and gents, shine a light on Midnight Special....and I do mean 'special'. :twisted:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&h=MIDNIGHT+SPECIAL5&g=5&p=0&f=1&l=

My curiousity is officially piqued, and unless I stumble across some dire database mess I'll flesh out Litte-Cote's female family later tonight. :wink:

magic code · Postby **magic code** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:05 pm

Oh, my. That Midnight Special makes my head spin.

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:35 pm

The lady that owns her offspring: we were laughing today and she has decided that the breeder lived out in the sticks, had no horse trailer to haul his mares to an outside stallion and just decided to breed together all the relatives they had at home :lol:

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:16 pm

cough

Winloc's Millie

camohn · Postby **camohn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:27 pm

magic code wrote:Oh, my. That Midnight Special makes my head spin.

I showed THAT one to the lady that has Miss Chain Links offspring....she thought the breeding farm program should be named DrunkenWhozYurUnkle :lol:

llbean · Postby **llbean** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:55 pm

Toccet02 wrote:well they run the risk of getting some double genitalia sets too with that method!
I have a doctor friend who tells me that happened lots in a family of frequently-marrying first cousins.

Hi Toccet,

I've never heard of that before and I probably know more about the subject than most.

Could you provide some background on these families? (I especially mean race/ethnicity...)

It is true that too many generations of more or less uninterupted 1st cousin marriage can shed a lot of the genetic diversity in a bloodline, to be sure; and who knows what could turn up if we were talking about a tradition going back 100s or even very possibly 1,000s of years...

Nonetheless, it would be surprising to me that either:

A. This is real without the Mutation being discovered.

or...

B. The Mutation was discovered and I didn't notice it.

Anyway, even if this is real, the chances of a similar recessive mutation being found in horses is VERY small...

Thanks,

-llbean

kezeli · Postby **kezeli** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:50 am

That makes me wonder about the amish in that they do have alot of inbreeding related defects and it seems that many are degenerative. I would think that in itself would "breed out" but apperantly only after a very long period of time.

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:52 am

llbean,

I prob. should have specified she was talking about humans!
But you figured that out----
I can ask her for more details. My doctor friend said she saw a hermaphrodite child with both sex organs clearly present.
This was a product of first cousins who were also products of 1st cousins marrying. One side or both, I'm not sure. This also happened in more ditant generations. Other ancestors in the family also had male/femal genitals present at birth.
Then our crabcakes benedict arrived, so we changed the subject!!!

:roll: