Stallion Conformation / Commercial ?

[TBMom]

I'm new and have three TB broodmares that will need to be mated in the next couple of months. All three are stakes placed with decent but not great catalog pages and cost in the $15,000 - $25,000 range.

I hope to sell one of the mares in foal, and/or the babies as weanlings to help offset expenses - and hopefully - make a profit. I've had help with the mating selections as to pedigree, but having a lot a trouble picking stallions. Could anyone give me some feedback on the following stallions as to conformation and commercial value?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions !!!

MARE #1
War Front, Candy Ride, Value Plus, Eurosilver, Friends Lake or Unbridled Energy.
MARE #2
Chapel Royal, Value Plus, Unbridled Energy, or (Free) Giacomo mating.
MARE #3
Sharp Humor, Value Plus, Unbridled Energy, or possibly Giacomo.

[Intrinsic Worth]

I don't see Giacomo being commercial at all.

[clh]

I had a mare booked to Eurosilver last year and unfortunately when she was ready to be bred was the day he had his colic surgery. I have not seen him this year but did last year when he was still racy but he was pretty nice.

I saw Value Plus last year and this year and just my opinion - but WOW - he is huge and has filled out very nicely over the last year. I really like him.

We had a Friends Lake filly out of an Unbridled's Song mare - didn't sell well and although she was a nice filly was not really impressed with her - although their average price has been $65K (NOT MINE THOUGH

Looking at your stallion choices it appears you have some mares very similar to my mares though......

Good luck. Folks here will be very helpful and honest. Welcome

[amanda1]

I saw Value Plus a few weeks ago and agree completely....he is STUNNING! And very correct. I went to the stallion open houses and saw maybe 40 stallions. He was one of the nicest looking ones. I don't think quite as much of him commercially.....but he is a looker.

I

[henthorn]

War Front foals may sell best of those mentioned, but his book has been full for awhile. I seriously doubt you could get to him this year.

Welcome to the forum! Let us know who your mares are, please, and where you are located. Are there any physical or mental areas we should know about for your ladies?

[clh]

YIKES Amanda - don't tell me that about VP - he's still on my SHORT list

[madelyn]

Given the values of the mares, your stud fee "shopping" belongs more in the $3-8K range. Without the names of the mares, it's not possible to comment on the mating selections.

[TBMom]

MARE #1 - Quanah - Changes in her catalog page are her 2005 Dixie Union foal died as a weanling and her 2003 foal Speccio broke his maiden with a small race in NY last week

http://www.keeneland.com/sales/nov06/pdfs/883.pdf

MARE #2 - Dee's Justice - Came with a free mating to Giacomo. Only a C+ Enick but my pedigree guy thought he'd be fine with her. Usual Lies looks better on paper to Giacomo, but she might be my best commercially so I hate to put her with him if he's a bad bet.

http://www.fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2006/1109/420.pdf


MARE #3 - Ususal Lies - Best of the three conformationally.

http://www.keeneland.com/sales/nov06/pdfs/3358.pdf

[kimberley mine]

I hope to sell one of the mares in foal, and/or the babies as weanlings to help offset expenses - and hopefully - make a profit. I've had help with the mating selections as to pedigree, but having a lot a trouble picking stallions. Could anyone give me some feedback on the following stallions as to conformation and commercial value?

Okay, first off, if you don't use the season to Giacomo, sell it. You bought it when you bought Dee's Justice. Even if it doesn't bring close to his advertised $12,500 fee, even if it only brings (for instance) $3000, that's $3000 more in your pocket.

Unbridled Energy: Ehhh. I can't get excited about him at $10,000, not when his 3/4 brother is a useful regional sire but not much more (pedigree) and with his race record (okay but not great). The tough, useful, grade-1 winning Taste of Paradise is at the same farm and only stands for $6,000.

Chapel Royal--this horse covered 165 mares in 2006 and what, 200 plus the year before? If your foal comes out perfect, you've got a chance in the sales, and if not, it's just one of hundreds of just plain horses by this one sire. Further, you'd be breeding on the bubble. For my money, there are better options for your mares.

Here's one to consider for Usual Lies: Whywhywhy. His foals have been selling exceptionally well for a $7500 fee, which is low enough that breeding on the bubble is less of a risk than, say, a horse at $15,000. Her dam had a stakes-placed runner sired by Mr Greeley, and the mating would be a reverse cross of Closing Argument (Successful Appeal out of a Mr Greeley mare). Further down the line, you have Quiet American and What a Pleasure, both of whom have done well with Valid Appeal.

[LSB]

I hope to sell one of the mares in foal, and/or the babies as weanlings to help offset expenses - and hopefully - make a profit. I've had help with the mating selections as to pedigree, but having a lot a trouble picking stallions. Could anyone give me some feedback on the following stallions as to conformation and commercial value?

Okay, first off, if you don't use the season to Giacomo, sell it. You bought it when you bought Dee's Justice. Even if it doesn't bring close to his advertised $12,500 fee, even if it only brings (for instance) $3000, that's $3000 more in your pocket.

As per the conditions of sale, Adena's no-guarantee seasons are only transferable to another mare wholly owned by the same purchaser and subject to Adena's approval. They can't be sold.

[Keith]

What stallions for your mares

Quanah

For Quannah I would consider

Wild And Wicked by Wild Again-Wicked Witchcraft by Good Behaving He is out of a very good mare who also produced champion older male The Wicked North, Grade II winner A Lady From Dixie, and Remington Park Derby winner Wicked Destiny. Wild and Wicked won the Ohio Derby and an allowance race at Churchill Downs over Saint Liam.
Lord at War mares do well crossed with Wild Again and at $5,000 he looks like a nice stallion.

Offlee Wild by Wild Again-Alvear by Seattle Slew Grade I winner out of a half sister to Dynaformer and you would get a 5x5 cross on Ribot
$10,000 Stud Fee Arlington Classic winner Purim is by Dynaformer and out of a Lord at War mare. Where Lord at War likes Wild Again this may be a very good cross

High Limit by Maria's Mon-Known Romance by Known Fact winner of the Louisiana Derby, Strub S.,and the San Pasquel H. With this cross you would get

4x5x6 Tamerett
5x6x6 Raise a Native

At $6,500 he is a nice stallion

Real Quiet by Quiet American-Really Blue by Believe It With this cross you would get

4x4x5 Dr. Fager
4x4 Mr. Prospector
4x5x5 Raise A Native

For $5,000 he does get the big horse

With Dee's Justice I would stick with Giacomo the horse who gets no respect. You can not beat a free stud fee especially to an unproven sire who won the Kentucky Derby. On paper it looks like they just breed her to gray stallions If I had a choice I would breed her to Strong Hope line breeding El Gran Senor 3x4 and Sex Appeal 4x4x5 but $30,000 is a liitle steep for Strong Hope when you can breed to a proven stallion like his sire Grand Slam for $35,000. I just think she would cross well with a Mr. Prospector line stallion.

With Dee's Justice I think Value Plus would be a good choice.

Keith

[Intrinsic Worth]

High Limit is back in training due to lack of interest or his fertility is in question.

[Rokeby Forever]

It's really amazing how nobody breeds for soundness when it comes to wanting to sell a foal with commercial value.

[windyr]

I looked at the walking video of Value Plus and although he is huge, he is very straight. If he throws those front leg angles to his offspring, he won't be commanding much in the sales ring. No foot no horse.

[angelsprite]

Rockeby,
The sale market is so much different, but it shouldn't be. There are stallions available that are marketable, in the right price range, in the right location, and compatable with the mare. Of course, in my business, I want all the mare owners to take their mares to the most compatable stallions that will be marketable and produce the most likely chances of successful offspring. I tell them, "You can have it all, and you can have it delivered!" It's always less expensive to know what you're doing when you're breeding, whether for the sale or the track. It costs just as much to feed a bad one as it does a good one, but the good one builds a breeder a good reputation. Soundness is so important. A crippled horse can't perform. I'm glad you brought that up.