I recently bought a mare - Heed Her Call - 2000 foal of Cherokee Run out of a Geiger Counter Mare. Mainly breeding to race - thinking Sky Classic or Royal Academy - but need and would appreciate anyones advice as to Nick's, suggested stallions, etc. Trying to stay under 15k. Thanks for any advice....
Interestingly enough - the Bris net stallion report shows Royal at 12% SW's and the Coolmore and Stallion register shows about 8%. Not sure what the diff is - or if that makes such a big deal between Sky and Royal?
Thanks
Mating Advice for new comer
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
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Bill from WA
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Location: Mountlake Terrace, WA
Another stallion you might consider is Gilded Time. The Damascus/Cherokee Run cross produced Chilukki, etc. Gilded Time has been a very consistant sire. Cat Thief and Bull Market are a couple of others you might check out.
Good luck.
Bill
Good luck.
Bill
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes
Hello da hoss,
If money were not an object I would go with Royal. There are more educated people on this forum than I, but I believe Sky's fee may be more negotiable than Royal's. Thus the difference may be more than the $2500 difference in advertised fee.
Kimberley Mine made a recent observation about Sky Classic and a successful relationship with Conquistadore Cielo. So maybe if you had a CC mare Sky Classic would be a better choice regardless of the fee.
You said you are breeding to race which has a meaning to me that is different to some, but if you are breeding to race it seems the market is such that you could buy a Sky Classic or Royal Academy for less than the price it will take to breed your mare and grow it.
For example, I am not sure how much HIP 4901 will cost in the upcoming Keeneland Yearling sale, but unless it is an exceptional specimen I dont see it fetching more than the 12.5 Sky Classic Fee and probably less. It is out of a Cielo mare and might be worth a look. There are quite a few Royal yearlings listed.
Obviously this is not the same as breeding your own mare, so if that is where your heart lies don't let me discourage you.
If money were not an object I would go with Royal. There are more educated people on this forum than I, but I believe Sky's fee may be more negotiable than Royal's. Thus the difference may be more than the $2500 difference in advertised fee.
Kimberley Mine made a recent observation about Sky Classic and a successful relationship with Conquistadore Cielo. So maybe if you had a CC mare Sky Classic would be a better choice regardless of the fee.
You said you are breeding to race which has a meaning to me that is different to some, but if you are breeding to race it seems the market is such that you could buy a Sky Classic or Royal Academy for less than the price it will take to breed your mare and grow it.
For example, I am not sure how much HIP 4901 will cost in the upcoming Keeneland Yearling sale, but unless it is an exceptional specimen I dont see it fetching more than the 12.5 Sky Classic Fee and probably less. It is out of a Cielo mare and might be worth a look. There are quite a few Royal yearlings listed.
Obviously this is not the same as breeding your own mare, so if that is where your heart lies don't let me discourage you.
Re: Mating Advice for new comer
hi da hoss
Beware...some percentage-of-stakes-winners stats are determined by using the number of stakes-winners in relation to the number of named foals. Other percentage-of-stakes-winners stats are determined by using the number of stakes-winners in relation to the number of starters...
...and so on.
Respectfully
da hoss wrote:Interestingly enough - the Bris net stallion report shows Royal at 12% SW's and the Coolmore and Stallion register shows about 8%. Not sure what the diff is - or if that makes such a big deal between Sky and Royal?
Beware...some percentage-of-stakes-winners stats are determined by using the number of stakes-winners in relation to the number of named foals. Other percentage-of-stakes-winners stats are determined by using the number of stakes-winners in relation to the number of starters...
...and so on.
Respectfully
Both look like good choices. Another horse I really like with this mare's pedigree is a new stallion named Osidy. True, he is not proven, with '08 being only his second year at stud. But at $4K he is a VERY good value for a maiden mare.. since the first breeding is also really a "test" breeding.
Cherokee Run's two top performers currently are out of Seattle Slew line mares (Capote and A. P. Indy) so Que Belle, Osidy's dam, offers at least My Charmer, along with the Northern Dancer sire line this mare might kick off with.
Cherokee Run's two top performers currently are out of Seattle Slew line mares (Capote and A. P. Indy) so Que Belle, Osidy's dam, offers at least My Charmer, along with the Northern Dancer sire line this mare might kick off with.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
dh
And, Da Hoss,
Unless you breed high end mares, it is almost always just as cheap to buy one as raise one.
But, it may not be as much fun to buy one, as it is to raise and watch your own baby grow into a race horse.
It is the only issue money? If not, raise away, and enjoy it.
Unless you breed high end mares, it is almost always just as cheap to buy one as raise one.
But, it may not be as much fun to buy one, as it is to raise and watch your own baby grow into a race horse.
It is the only issue money? If not, raise away, and enjoy it.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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Are you based in Ohio? If so, would you consider a PA, WV or OH stud? Breeders awards and statebred competition will VASTLY increase your opportunities for success as a homebreeder.
So will lower-fee, bargain studs. Don't get me wrong, I love Royal Academy and love Sky Classic even more, but the less money on your initial expenditure (mare, mare care, stud fee), the less money you'll need to make in the long haul to "break even." If money isn't an object, you can ignore this. Here are some good-value stallions who might fit your mare:
Slew City Slew ($6000, KY)
Prized ($3500, WV)
Lite The Fuse ($3500, PA)
If you can register your foal as WV-sired in addition to an OH-bred (I assume), go for it!
So will lower-fee, bargain studs. Don't get me wrong, I love Royal Academy and love Sky Classic even more, but the less money on your initial expenditure (mare, mare care, stud fee), the less money you'll need to make in the long haul to "break even." If money isn't an object, you can ignore this. Here are some good-value stallions who might fit your mare:
Slew City Slew ($6000, KY)
Prized ($3500, WV)
Lite The Fuse ($3500, PA)
If you can register your foal as WV-sired in addition to an OH-bred (I assume), go for it!
Thanks madelyn and I do understand the important difference you point out..
However, I still believe Indy Mood should be consiodered for this mare.
I will admit I like Indy Mood very much and hauled two mares from Virginia to Indiana to breed to him this year. I'm bringing them back to WV or PA to foal but this owner should also consider the new breeder's incentives the slots will bring to Indiana breds. .
griff
However, I still believe Indy Mood should be consiodered for this mare.
I will admit I like Indy Mood very much and hauled two mares from Virginia to Indiana to breed to him this year. I'm bringing them back to WV or PA to foal but this owner should also consider the new breeder's incentives the slots will bring to Indiana breds. .
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
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Monmouth Matt
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Da Hoss,
Congrats on entering the breeding biz.
Some great suggestions mentioned, but perhaps a bit more info would be helpful to share thoughts/ideas:
* Where are you ideally planning on racing?
* Does your thoughts on Royal A./Sky Classic (I love both) mean you would like to shoot for a turf router or are you looking for as much sire as you can get for the money regardless of what they tend to get (dirt/turf).
*have you made yourself fully knowledgeable on the different state-bred programs available to you?
I think if you give a bit more feedback, then some of the strong pedigree folks on the board can give you some valuable thoughts to consider.
I'm in the process of mare shopping now so I'm just mentioning some of the criteria I've worked out in my search! Again...Good Luck
Congrats on entering the breeding biz.
Some great suggestions mentioned, but perhaps a bit more info would be helpful to share thoughts/ideas:
* Where are you ideally planning on racing?
* Does your thoughts on Royal A./Sky Classic (I love both) mean you would like to shoot for a turf router or are you looking for as much sire as you can get for the money regardless of what they tend to get (dirt/turf).
*have you made yourself fully knowledgeable on the different state-bred programs available to you?
I think if you give a bit more feedback, then some of the strong pedigree folks on the board can give you some valuable thoughts to consider.
I'm in the process of mare shopping now so I'm just mentioning some of the criteria I've worked out in my search! Again...Good Luck
And DOWN the stretch they come!
This mare has a real "open" pedigree. But I do think she needs an infusion of class and I have a theory that the best way to do that is by reinforcing the best female in the immediate pedigree.
To me, that would be Thong, through her broodmare sire, Geiger Counter. She would have been a very interesting match with Storm Boot, but his recent death obviously takes that option away.
One that is a decent possibility is Horse Chestnut. He gets a big horse every now and then but also throws versatility and speed into his foals. With Cherokee Run as her sire, I would play to the strength of his speed and try to bring in some more. This cross will give you 6x5 Thong.
A little riskier of a pairing is Wild Zone. He's been somewhat of a disaster at stud, but some of his daughters are starting to produce some decent horses so a filly wouldn't be horrible. Wild Zone's 5th dam is a half-sister to Thong. Again 6x5 Thong.
Although I believe you should only breed to proven stallions if you have an unproven broodmare and you're looking to breed to race, Mingun brings in the much desired Thong Rasmussen Factor 4x5 through his broodmare sire, Nureyev.
Getting away from the Thong factor, Marquetry is an interesting play. He would give you Mr. Prospector 3x4 but through Conquistador Cielo and Geiger Counter. I doubt much Mr. P inbreeding has been tried through these two sons, but there's enough success with doubling up of Mr. P to give it a shot. Marquetry is about as solid as they come as a speed stallion.
And in the same mold of Sky Classic and Royal Academy, you have the underappreciated and well performing Military. He's an outcross for the first 5 gens to your mare, but is getting great numbers per the mares he's getting. I'd highly recommend him if you're not scared of turf and it appears you're not. But, for the record, he gets good dirt horses as well.
To me, that would be Thong, through her broodmare sire, Geiger Counter. She would have been a very interesting match with Storm Boot, but his recent death obviously takes that option away.
One that is a decent possibility is Horse Chestnut. He gets a big horse every now and then but also throws versatility and speed into his foals. With Cherokee Run as her sire, I would play to the strength of his speed and try to bring in some more. This cross will give you 6x5 Thong.
A little riskier of a pairing is Wild Zone. He's been somewhat of a disaster at stud, but some of his daughters are starting to produce some decent horses so a filly wouldn't be horrible. Wild Zone's 5th dam is a half-sister to Thong. Again 6x5 Thong.
Although I believe you should only breed to proven stallions if you have an unproven broodmare and you're looking to breed to race, Mingun brings in the much desired Thong Rasmussen Factor 4x5 through his broodmare sire, Nureyev.
Getting away from the Thong factor, Marquetry is an interesting play. He would give you Mr. Prospector 3x4 but through Conquistador Cielo and Geiger Counter. I doubt much Mr. P inbreeding has been tried through these two sons, but there's enough success with doubling up of Mr. P to give it a shot. Marquetry is about as solid as they come as a speed stallion.
And in the same mold of Sky Classic and Royal Academy, you have the underappreciated and well performing Military. He's an outcross for the first 5 gens to your mare, but is getting great numbers per the mares he's getting. I'd highly recommend him if you're not scared of turf and it appears you're not. But, for the record, he gets good dirt horses as well.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
Thanks to all for the input/Help/Advice! I appreciate it - and apologize for the delayed response - techinical difficulty..... Anyway - all were appreciated and valid suggestions. Here are a few more questions:
1. Which do you think is the best State Bred Program - NY, PA or LA - and where is OH and IN going?
2. If you are going to breed back to KY stallion after the foal is born - isn't there risk in transporting just after they drop - and don't you lose out on time?
Thanks again - this seems like a nice forum.
1. Which do you think is the best State Bred Program - NY, PA or LA - and where is OH and IN going?
2. If you are going to breed back to KY stallion after the foal is born - isn't there risk in transporting just after they drop - and don't you lose out on time?
Thanks again - this seems like a nice forum.
The people who are active breeders in each state might be the best judge of their program. Regarding the breedback.. well you have an open mare. Optimistically, you can get her to a stallion for an early February cover. If all goes well, she drops the baby in the state whose program you selected. KY stud farms do not usually like to breed back on foal heat, so you can bring the mare with baby at her next natural cycle, ie: about 30 days. You might now be in a mid or late Feb timeframe.. etc. At some point the breeding of the mare will have advanced into May or June and then she might have an open year. And then some state programs prohibit you from doing that.. if you bring her in carrying a foal by a KY sire, you HAVE to breed back to a sire in that state.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
The NY program has always been the best, but some of the others are catching up. It's nice to get a quarterly check for more money than you thought you'd be getting and see the names of horses you haven't had in years. Not only does it put more money into your pocket but it is a testament to your breeding practices that they are still running!
winds
winds