Would you do this mating

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:49 am

Excellent Secret X Pepper Meant to Be even though there is more than the average problem with bows in that the sire bowed and the broodmare sire bowed. If you don't have hypomating privileges, you can go to www.texasthoroughbred.com and scroll down to the magazine section one up from the bottom of the page and do a hypomating.

yukidragon · Postby **yukidragon** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:33 pm

Is the correct spelling Pepper Meant?
I can't find a horse listed as that.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:54 pm

Its "Pepper Meant To Be"

yukidragon · Postby **yukidragon** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:57 pm

I would from just a glance.
Dig as deep as you can.
Look at every stallion near you an then decide.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:32 am

I'm guessing that you don't like the cross. On paper, I would really like to do the mating, They are very similar in body types, both rectangular in shape with good rear-ends.

yukidragon · Postby **yukidragon** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:06 pm

I myself like to return the female family.
Everyones different.
Theres some things I like with the mating.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:42 pm

I know that this is a regional type of mating, and of little interest to most of you, but I like it because I am doubling up on Great Lady M, Bold Ruler, and farther back Neartic and Hyperion. I like the 3X3 and 4X4 and heck I like Ladies Secret. In my opinion, the paper is there and my question should have been would you take a chance with problem of bow's even though the sire and grandsire seems to throw good sound horses.

halo · Postby **halo** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:27 pm

Pepper Meant To Be ran 8 times and never hit the board. Her sire, Raja's Best Boy, ran 5 times and never hit the board. Her dam, Ken's Charisma, ran 8 times with 1 second with earnings of $3,335. Her half brothers and sisters collectively ran 121 times with 7 wins and total lifetime earnings of $28,700 for all the siblings. Id be far more concerned with trying to breed some talent into this family, if you absolutely have to breed this mare, than worrying about bows.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:20 pm

Halo, thanks for your opinion. The reasons that I keep this mare line going comes from an old quote from either Keene or Bradley. "Any mare that can do a 44 either in a race or in the morning deserves a chance to be broodmare. Both Pepper and her dam could do that. The money earned is missleading when you consider that most of it was earned before Louisiana got slots and Texas was just starting. It is hard to accumulate a lot money running for $2,000-$4,000 purses. I wrote Farnsworth Farms years ago and ask why they chose to stand Bolinas Boy, he had an ordinary pedigree with only a few starts and not much money earned. They replied "Bolinas Boy was a very very fast horse" You need to update your data base or check pedigreequery for more current information on Pepper. Its not much better, but its a start. She has run most of her races against open MSW's, because until lately she was wanted by other trainers. I guess I should have let them have her

Raja's Best Boy is a nice regional sire and pedigreequery does not have all his better runners listed and he was a 3/4's sib to Ladie's Secret.

halo · Postby **halo** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:50 pm

I got all the information on your mare from the APR. I don't use Ped Query when I want correct complete information. Bolinas Boy was a very fast horse, but he was also a stakes winner of 4 of 8 starts. He was by the very fast Nantallah out of a mare that, tho unraced, was a half sister to 3 stakes winners. Not a valid comparison to your mare, who has no racing talent up close in her pedigree. If she could do 44 in a race, then she must have stopped like she was shot to not have hit the board in 8 races.

I pulled her charts, and the best half mile time she ran was a 47. I don't know where she ran 44, but it wasnt in a race. At any rate, please don't breed a pedigree page. If you want to play with pedigrees, fine, but give your mare a chance to produce a race horse by breeding her to one. You might think it just lovely to make a pedigree page that has Mare Whatever on the page a couple of times, but when that foal breaks from the gate, he aint gonna be able to call on Grandma to get him around the track.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:29 pm

I would look for a Phone Trick horse for this mare. You would get your Icecapade inbreeding, and perhaps the speed she needs.

Too bad Favorite Trick died.

Most importantly, I would breed her to a horse with some serious racing talent. The pedigree/registration papers don't run the race, the horse does.

Rick · Postby **Rick** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:35 pm

I wouldn't breed to Excellent Secret. I would look at Afternoon Deelites to inbreed to Shennaningans. This would also give use sex balanced inbreeding to Bold Ruler. It also brings in Secretariat which seemed to work with Great Lady M in the past.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Halo, I think I know why you chose Halo as a forum name. Just kidding, Pepper has had 13 starts and the best she has is a 3rd and she has earned only $3,600, but she displaces and we have had a myectomy (sp) and it does help some, but she did stop if you look at the charts they will tell that. Slow out of the gate run and catch the pack and die. She can work a 44 anytime I want her too, but who wants to work 44's in an official work?
I have argued your point about pedigree pages too many times, but pedigree folks just don't listen. I hope it doesn't upset you that I actually agree with you. One thing all of us have in common is a tendency to be stable blind when it comes to our horses and I am, but I am too poor to waste time breeding slow mares and I do cull those who can't run. You have some good advice, but in my opinion you need to learn a little more tack (sp) Race records are important until one has a sire record to go with then the sire record trumps in my mind.
I really do like Icecapade for this mare and afternoon delights would work also. I like afternoon delights more and more now that Tx Breds are running for for such small purses.
Do any of you like the inbreeding in the proposed cross?

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:06 am

Her breathing problem might be heritable. You really might be better off with a better mare.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:40 pm

Madelyn, you are right I could use a better mare, but then again I guess we all can use a better mare. This girl is special to me and I am stable blind, but I started a progam of breeding up my stock with her granddam several years ago and Pepper is not a bad regional broodmare prospect for a guy who breeds, raises, and trains his own horses. The idea with a mare like this is to try and find a stallion who will improve her (thats not hard for my stock even here in Texas). I am more interested in keeping them sound so I like stallions who have several get that run well into old age. She did inherit her displacing tendencies, it comes from as far back as Spin the Tale. The horse that won the Breeders Cup Sprint displaces too if I heard Baffert correctly, and I am sure that he will get a good chance at stud, it is a problem that can be dealt with in most cases.
I probably could have worded my question better to get opinions on what I really was looking for. Would one be justified in breeding to a stallion that bowed, but his babies don't bow to a mare whose sire bowed, but his offspring don't bow to get a great( in my opinion) pedigree?
I think that almost makes sense. Thanks for putting up with my sick mind.