Didn't do anything impressive on the track, won a $4000 claiming race when she was last in Florida. I bought her in NY so you can tell this poor girl has been around the block. She's a good mare, bad training has severely shortened her stride so it makes no wonder why she didn't do well. Been in pasture for the last year and has really relaxed her. Came here with a 10ft stride and is now walking around as big as my 16.3h gelding (he can canter 13 to 14ft). But she's on the small side. I was told she was 15.3h but I think she is maybe 15.1h.
Good mare but I think has typical Damascus temperament so I must be an authority figure.
Anyways, here's her pedigree:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/silver+certificate
I would like to clean up her legs (toed out) and add length plus put on a better hip angle. I mainly breed sporthorses, but who do you think would be a good TB sire for her. I already know who would match her in the WB department.
Who would you breed her to?
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helen in FL
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Hi Helen,
You're describing (physically) Crusader Swords. TIN CUP CHALICE (by Crusader Sword) just won the Juvenile Stakes at Finger Lakes race this weekend.
What are your intentions with the foal? Budget? Expectations and goals? Where do you want to breed her? (Keep her in the NY program?). This would make giving advice easier.
Regards,
Pete
You're describing (physically) Crusader Swords. TIN CUP CHALICE (by Crusader Sword) just won the Juvenile Stakes at Finger Lakes race this weekend.
What are your intentions with the foal? Budget? Expectations and goals? Where do you want to breed her? (Keep her in the NY program?). This would make giving advice easier.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
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helen in FL
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- Location: north central florida
I forget race breeding is different than sporthorse breeding. The foal will be a FL bred since that's where the mare's at and where my operation is. Nothing astronomical in stud fees because in the warmblood market I can still breed to the best for under $5,000. I would ideally like a stallion known for putting more talent on the foals other than just racing. Much like Gail's boy A Fine Romance or Donna's boy GG. And clean up the mare's conformation.
There are some nice Storm Cat sons in Ocala who are reasonably priced (or "cheap") and I know they cross well with Damascus, but rarely do they ever perform out of racing. I would love to breed to a Caro son but the only one relatively close is Cozzene and I can't afford a $35,000 stud fee. I like the looks of Cuvee who has Blushing Groom for a sire damsire and my beloved Whitesburg on the dam's sire line. A little more reasonable at $10,000 but still would like something cheaper.
But to answer your questions directly, I want a performance foal, not just a racing foal. Good lines that would cross with the mare and improve her conformation. I am very close to Ocala so that leaves a lot of options. Nothing over $5,000 unless exception.
There are some nice Storm Cat sons in Ocala who are reasonably priced (or "cheap") and I know they cross well with Damascus, but rarely do they ever perform out of racing. I would love to breed to a Caro son but the only one relatively close is Cozzene and I can't afford a $35,000 stud fee. I like the looks of Cuvee who has Blushing Groom for a sire damsire and my beloved Whitesburg on the dam's sire line. A little more reasonable at $10,000 but still would like something cheaper.
But to answer your questions directly, I want a performance foal, not just a racing foal. Good lines that would cross with the mare and improve her conformation. I am very close to Ocala so that leaves a lot of options. Nothing over $5,000 unless exception.
Your mare
Helen,
One question, was she raced in sprints only and on the dirt only? Her pedigree looks like she wanted distance races and probably would excel on the turf. Some people think that horses that don't show much on dirt can't run with the big horses on turf and don't try them. That's a shame.
Anyway, if she crosses well with any of the stallions you can afford, go see the stallions yourself and make the determination then. Ask to see some of their babies, ask questions, just don't say you want to make a sport horse, you'll probably be turned away. They're in the business of making racehorses and your foal would bring the percentages down.
winds aka Vita
One question, was she raced in sprints only and on the dirt only? Her pedigree looks like she wanted distance races and probably would excel on the turf. Some people think that horses that don't show much on dirt can't run with the big horses on turf and don't try them. That's a shame.
Anyway, if she crosses well with any of the stallions you can afford, go see the stallions yourself and make the determination then. Ask to see some of their babies, ask questions, just don't say you want to make a sport horse, you'll probably be turned away. They're in the business of making racehorses and your foal would bring the percentages down.
winds aka Vita
Wekiva Springs
Wekiva Springs, as a Blushing Groom line stallion, he is in Fl, inexpensive ($2,500.00), throws soundness (83% starters from foals) and is double copy grey. If you want a grey foal he's your guy.
Hi Helen,
I think you've answered your own question.
I would breed Silver Certificate as a show horse only if I were considering selling her foal. There is very little pedigree or performance up close to amplify a sales price. Her 3rd dam, Kimberley June was a very good broodmare but her daughters (like 2nd dam Key Venture) mainly produced blue collar claiming types.
Her 'aunts' have been weak producers, their foals have not been quality race horses. If you feel that she has the qualities that can make her a succesful sports broodmare I'd go in that direction.
Storm Cat / Damascus probably isn't very relevant since it assumes affinities through at least one extra generation on each side of the pedigree.
You've mentioned her physical flaws and all I'd add is to find a stallion that is well made in those areas. I can't comment on TB racing sires abilities as show horse sires but I'd not mention my intentions to a racing TB Stallion owner since they'll have little interest a favorable fee for a foal that's likely not to race.
If you can get top sport stallions inexpensively I'd got that direction. You don't mention anything compelling to do otherwise. Good luck.
Regards,
Pete
I think you've answered your own question.
I would breed Silver Certificate as a show horse only if I were considering selling her foal. There is very little pedigree or performance up close to amplify a sales price. Her 3rd dam, Kimberley June was a very good broodmare but her daughters (like 2nd dam Key Venture) mainly produced blue collar claiming types.
Her 'aunts' have been weak producers, their foals have not been quality race horses. If you feel that she has the qualities that can make her a succesful sports broodmare I'd go in that direction.
Storm Cat / Damascus probably isn't very relevant since it assumes affinities through at least one extra generation on each side of the pedigree.
You've mentioned her physical flaws and all I'd add is to find a stallion that is well made in those areas. I can't comment on TB racing sires abilities as show horse sires but I'd not mention my intentions to a racing TB Stallion owner since they'll have little interest a favorable fee for a foal that's likely not to race.
If you can get top sport stallions inexpensively I'd got that direction. You don't mention anything compelling to do otherwise. Good luck.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
-
helen in FL
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- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:21 am
- Location: north central florida
Helen,
It's a shame they sent Running Stag to Texas and With Approval to England, because they were bargains to give you your Caro nick.
Have you looked at Gibson County at all? The Caro is back a few generations, but the hypomating with your mare looks nice. And he's certainly in your price range, and your neck of the woods.
It's a shame they sent Running Stag to Texas and With Approval to England, because they were bargains to give you your Caro nick.
Have you looked at Gibson County at all? The Caro is back a few generations, but the hypomating with your mare looks nice. And he's certainly in your price range, and your neck of the woods.
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helen in FL
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Whoa, With Approval would have been perfect! Caro with Buckpasser? That's jumping lines all the way, jumping and guts, Buckpasser is known for his eventers.
Running Stag is absolutely gorgeous, his handler could have shown off his walk better but he's a good size and that tail is to die for. It's points in his favor being by Cozzene plus adding the Bull Lea on the bottom. Not positive about the German blood on the dam sire line, but like anything, research could reveal more.
I have a buyer coming to look at the mare on Tuesday for a sport prospect because I was told of a Clever Trick stallion who just became available and I like keeping my stock small. Great advice guys! I will be looking at Running Stag for my other mares next season, I have a few friends in TX so the trip could be warranted. I would love to get some good jumper blood in the mare line.
Running Stag is absolutely gorgeous, his handler could have shown off his walk better but he's a good size and that tail is to die for. It's points in his favor being by Cozzene plus adding the Bull Lea on the bottom. Not positive about the German blood on the dam sire line, but like anything, research could reveal more.
I have a buyer coming to look at the mare on Tuesday for a sport prospect because I was told of a Clever Trick stallion who just became available and I like keeping my stock small. Great advice guys! I will be looking at Running Stag for my other mares next season, I have a few friends in TX so the trip could be warranted. I would love to get some good jumper blood in the mare line.
helen, the word is Running Stag is moving to LA. So, if you decide to visit him then stop by and look at both my stallions, COUNTER PUNCH by Cozzene, and, MUSTANG JOCK by Wild Again. They stand in Opelousas, LA at the Running R Ranch. You won't find two better looking stallions and the price is right. Look up their pedigree and pics on the PQ.
Larrygene
Larrygene
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helen in FL
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 629
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:21 am
- Location: north central florida
-
helen in FL
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 629
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:21 am
- Location: north central florida
Oh I know Gwen from years back! I don't think this mare would be nice enough for Fred, she's got a little attitude and I don't think she would like traveling to canada very much. Fred is just such a sweet boy I am waiting for a better mare in my band for him! Big fan of Double Jay in the dam line and I've worked with a few Bold Bidders. If my Best Turn/Crimson Satan mare wasn't nearing her 23rd birthday I would send her up in a heart beat. Almost did when he was at Hilltop!