Hi all. I am a trainer who had no intentions of becoming a breeder. However, I had a nice mare basically given to me and am now looking at breeding her. She is a Gallapiat mare, Buckpasser on sire side and Kris S is the broodmare (Trufulla Rose) sire. She is stakes placed, won 6 of 8 mostly allowance, came in 2nd in the Breeders Cup Calder.
I went to Ocala stallion shopping this weekend, I do not have a big budget and as a trainer, I plan on keeping the foal. I am looking to breed a solid race horse with good, thick bones. I am not interested in the sales and that drama. I am not interested in giant 17 hand horses with tall cannons either. I do not want any Storm Cats.
The stallions I looked at all have A or B Nicks, although I just use it as a tool.
I like Wekiva Springs, Mongoose, Cashel Castle, Holy Ground and Proud and True basically in that order. Looked at Mr. Livingston, Forbidden Apple, Rey de Cafe also. (went to Double Diamond, Bridlewood and Journeyman)
Opinions on the stallions I like? The reasons I like them are mostly, build, temperment, progeny accomplishments, physical match up to my mare, stud fee and feeling I got when around them.
Thanks!
Stallion shopping
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
wither98,
Sounds like you have a nice mare there.
Mongoose, castle, and holy ground are unproven. Proud and True is 17.2.
So Wekiva would be my choice of the sires you looked at. I would probably take a look a Double Honor though he is a little higher in fee than the other stallions listed. Double Honor may provide you with a sales foal if circumstances change down the road.
Sounds like you have a nice mare there.
Mongoose, castle, and holy ground are unproven. Proud and True is 17.2.
So Wekiva would be my choice of the sires you looked at. I would probably take a look a Double Honor though he is a little higher in fee than the other stallions listed. Double Honor may provide you with a sales foal if circumstances change down the road.
Mare
I like your mare.
Wekiva Springs sires about 83% runners from foals (not including the current 2 year olds. Of those about 75% win a race, not necessarily at high levels but certainly very useful. Of his 15 or so listed stakes winners, several have In Reality as does Rose. I like the return of Tom Fool and a chance to make a useful horse, The foal will be grey as Wekiva is double copy grey so many sport horse people like the greys after the racing is finished. Most Wekiva progeny are not precocious so breeding this late for a breed to race should not be a problem, just don't expect a two year old runner.
Wekiva Springs sires about 83% runners from foals (not including the current 2 year olds. Of those about 75% win a race, not necessarily at high levels but certainly very useful. Of his 15 or so listed stakes winners, several have In Reality as does Rose. I like the return of Tom Fool and a chance to make a useful horse, The foal will be grey as Wekiva is double copy grey so many sport horse people like the greys after the racing is finished. Most Wekiva progeny are not precocious so breeding this late for a breed to race should not be a problem, just don't expect a two year old runner.
Double Honor was first on my list because with her papers, came a note that said she was eligible for a considerable discount on Double Horor or Imperialism. Unfoortunately, when I called, both stallions books were closed for the year. Plus, the people there were not very receptive to talking with me at all regarding next season which turned me off.
Also, I do not plan on running 2 year olds. I do not like 2 year old racing and am very cautious of my race horses. I am fortunate to work for owners who believe as I do that the horses tell us when they are ready and I STRONGLY am against 2 year old racing. Especially with breeding so late in the year this year. I have patience with horses, I do not rush them.
I saw Proud and True in person and he wasn't much taller than Wekiva. He certainly isn't 17.2 so if it says that on his papers, they are off a bit for sure. I'll tell you one thing, Proud and True is so built, I bet he has muscles in his crap! Nice looking boy. A bit high strung, but what a build.
I tink Mongoose has an interesting pedigree and read an article recently on how rare it is. Some people were concerned the Broad Brush/ Ack Ack lines would disappear altogether.
But I do agree that Wekiva is proven and I like that. Also, the people at Double Diamond were amazing to talk to. I highly recommend them. My husband and I do not look like your typical race horse people, he is 6'2" with long hair- and we felt a little pre judged by some of the larger farms until they looked at our mare and talked to us, realizing I was a trainer and knew horses! Double Diamond were so nice to us from the get go and we felt no prejudgement whatsoever. I know that doesn't make a race horse, but having a good vibe about the people involved makes a difference to me.
Also, I do not plan on running 2 year olds. I do not like 2 year old racing and am very cautious of my race horses. I am fortunate to work for owners who believe as I do that the horses tell us when they are ready and I STRONGLY am against 2 year old racing. Especially with breeding so late in the year this year. I have patience with horses, I do not rush them.
I saw Proud and True in person and he wasn't much taller than Wekiva. He certainly isn't 17.2 so if it says that on his papers, they are off a bit for sure. I'll tell you one thing, Proud and True is so built, I bet he has muscles in his crap! Nice looking boy. A bit high strung, but what a build.
I tink Mongoose has an interesting pedigree and read an article recently on how rare it is. Some people were concerned the Broad Brush/ Ack Ack lines would disappear altogether.
But I do agree that Wekiva is proven and I like that. Also, the people at Double Diamond were amazing to talk to. I highly recommend them. My husband and I do not look like your typical race horse people, he is 6'2" with long hair- and we felt a little pre judged by some of the larger farms until they looked at our mare and talked to us, realizing I was a trainer and knew horses! Double Diamond were so nice to us from the get go and we felt no prejudgement whatsoever. I know that doesn't make a race horse, but having a good vibe about the people involved makes a difference to me.
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Bill from WA
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GreenThumb
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I wouldn't call Mongoose totally unproven. He does have a few racing crops out there doing ok. Its funny how I cannot get any input on him from anywhere. Is it his Broad Brush/Ack Ack line that you don't see alot of these days?
He was on the Derby trail, trained by Bill Mott and ridden by Jerry Bailey.
I'm still leaning towards Wekiva but can't stop thinking of Mongoose. He was a really nice looking boy with a cool personality. I also believe hs is the only Grade 1 winner standing in Florida. No one likes him???
He was on the Derby trail, trained by Bill Mott and ridden by Jerry Bailey.
I'm still leaning towards Wekiva but can't stop thinking of Mongoose. He was a really nice looking boy with a cool personality. I also believe hs is the only Grade 1 winner standing in Florida. No one likes him???
I would say that some were hoping that Mongoose would be doing much better than he is. There are certainly a lot of reasons to like his accomplishments and him physically. If I had to put my finger on it I would say that his blacktype percentages are the reason interest in him has waned. He is producing blacktype entries (not winners) at a 3% rate. Compare that to Wekiva 8% and Double 11%. Mongoose has only had 3 crops compared to WS 9 and DH 7, so his numbers do stand a chance of improving some. His progeny are averaging less than 2 years on the track though so his future crops will need to get going!
Looking at stallion register there are 14 advertised sons of Broad Brush so his line will continue for a few more years. If you want to save a sire line head to Kentucky and go to Home At Last. Since you are breeding to race there is nothing stopping you from going with your instincts and intuition.
Looking at stallion register there are 14 advertised sons of Broad Brush so his line will continue for a few more years. If you want to save a sire line head to Kentucky and go to Home At Last. Since you are breeding to race there is nothing stopping you from going with your instincts and intuition.
According to the Thoroughbred Times stallion register Proud And True is 17 hands even. His get average 23 starts lifetime and average earnings per runner are now about $50,937., Wekiva Springs is listed as 16.2 starts 19 average earnings $41,494. I think Proud And True is probably a good choice. He sired Champion older horse in Canada True Metropolitan. Wekiva Springs has not sired any that are as good as Proud And True's best.
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GreenThumb
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