Stallion farms are difficult to deal with for breeding mares

[KMO_racing]

When I call for a 1st year sire 95% of the time the mare is turned down. Answers are mare too old, spotty produce mare earnings were not black type, not from a commercial broodmare sire. What do I need to do buy Azari or Ashado, wish I could..

EX I submitted a mare who earned 193,000 the hard way to a few first year in KY She was turned down, This would be her 1st foal. They offered me the bottom end stallions on thee farms.

EX, I submitted a mare that was stakes plced and produced a graded stakes place filly by Mecke to farms in Ky for 1st year sires. She is a 93 model She has 2 to track & 2 winners. has had a baby last 3 years and all is well. She has not had consistancy in foaling they said. They said produce record spotty and she is to old.

They say they are trying to make a stallion and have a criteria on the mares they are taking. This makes me crazy.... If we are will pay the stud fee and the cross has been proven to work How do you argue with the sales reps at the farms...

[LB]

They say they are trying to make a stallion and have a criteria on the mares they are taking. This makes me crazy.... If we are will pay the stud fee and the cross has been proven to work How do you argue with the sales reps at the farms...

The short answer is...you don't. The stallion managers know what they want and arguing that they should want something different isn't going to change their minds. As far as being willing to pay the stud fee, well, so is everyone else.

First year KY stallions are the most popular play for commercial breeders, so their handlers get to pick and choose among the mares submitted. First preference goes to stakes winners and producers of stakes winners at top tracks. Second preference to young winning mares from excellent families. Third to mares owned by friends of the farm. By that time the books are usually full.

There are many great proven stallions to choose from in KY, and their stud fees are often more reasonable than the First Year horses. In most cases, you'll find their books easier to get into too.

[cng]

Wait a few years. Most likely you can breed to the same horse much cheaper and the only qualifier will be the mare is able to stand under the horse.

I have found it is better to have a big fish in a small pond, anyway.

[soundfast]

You are likey better off with a proven stallion who has shown he can sire sound runners with some class. Some of those new stallions offspring may not be well received even with good mares and you might be sorry you bred to them. Louisiana where you are has some nice stallions with good average earnings and low stud fees. A lot of KY stallions are overpriced. Sefapiano's average earnings per runner are over $63K with 7% SW's and 24 starts per runner. One way some people have gotten to breed to stallions they wanted is by bidding on a donated season. Some donated seasons are live foal guarantee to some stallions or if you know your mare and the stallion are both very fertile you could risk a no guarantee season. I recently read about somebody who was turned down to breed to a stallion he liked so he bid on and won a breeding to the stallion he wanted and his mare produced a stakes winner. www.starquine.com is one of the web sites I have seen donated seasons on and I think there is a live auction for Thoroughbred charities also. www.vabred.org usually has one and other state bred web sites might also.

[KMO_racing]

I agree LA has a great breeding program and stallions that are priced very resonable. I am standing a stallion he is a 1st year 2009 Wynn In Command for $2,000 his 3/4 brother is Afleet Alex and stands for $40,000 We breed to many different sires but always try to send 3 mares to KY to get the LA bred with a KY sire that seems to be working. Like this year I have a Grand Reward foaled in LA. She will be in OBS sale in Oct. The LA program lets you go out of state every other year.

[walaa]

fanlew and others in LA, has anyone seen Catniro?? I have asked before, here and on the Texas forum before it went out of business got an answer about the seattle slew Statement in TX that I really like, but have never heard a peep from anyone in LA about Catniro. raced a million times, nice ped, IMHO, no bashing, I like it, period, and his pictures look really good. Just wondering how old the oldest are, havent gone to their website in a while, I guess I will in a minute, a few of the babies they have on the site look good. anyone have one? seen the stallion? opinions/ except bashing me because i personally like his ped, please, we can talk about that another time. Thanks

[walaa]

Also, do you have pics of Wynn In Command? or a website. looked at his ped, very nice would love to see pics if you can post or a link to one. Thanks

[Sock Monkey]

It's not unlike picking someone up at a bar - the closer it gets to last call, the lower the standard gets. Right now, everyone wants a 12 for their stallion, give it until the season gets under way and the beer goggles will start getting put on if the book is still open.

It also depends a lot on the farm - the farms that are wanting to brag about limiting books will be a lot more picky than those that want to push their stallion to the top of the Freshman Sire List through sheer force of numbers.

A spotty produce record is going to be a problem for a first year stallion. It's crucial the stallion gets good in-foal numbers that first year or rumors of infertility will be rampant. With that kind of mare, I'd wait a bit until the farm is ready to deal a little more seriously.

Beyond desperation, another reason Ky farms get less picky as the season wears on is that a lot of breeders (like me) will ask about the type of mares a stallion is getting. This, obviously, becomes less of a issue the later it gets as more of the mares owned by picky people are booked.

Kentucky does not appreciate non-blacktype earnings. They just don't.

Good luck! And I hope you get into the books you want!

[KMO_racing]

I appreciate the information, it is just frustrating sometimes. But love the last call statement, how true it is....

[walaa]

never mind about my questions, I guess, I guess I am just blackballed from evergetting a response on these forums anymore, oh well. Dont know what I did, but I dont care anymore either, I guess you have to "know someone" to be allowed in the conversation. Bye Bye

[KMO_racing]

Wa,
check your PM. That will answer your question.

[ZZTOPPERS]

There may be another way to get in to first year stallions (or any other year stallion)--try some of the bloodstock agents you see advertising in the Bloodhorse who sell stallion seasons and shares. I've used Pegg Thoroughbred Consultants and even Taylor Made Farms to get stallion seasons, and since many times the shares come from syndicate share owners, you may just be able to get your mares in that door.

[KMO_racing]

Taylor Made is tough to get into for there studs of the 1st year kind. Yes, that is a good idea to try.

[TomFool]

First year stallions are always the rage for commerical breeders even though starting this year I could see it start to change (more normal yearling buyers not gambling so much on conformation alone) a bit but probley not enough to effect things. The hot first year sires are sometimes almost impossiable to get to even with quality mares if its not exactly what they are looking for. You could try searching for maybe a NG season or a handy way you can try even though it is a longshot is to contact the horses trainer & maybe even reg rider as many times they have seasons given to them every year & most never use them theirselves. I know Stewart Elliot had a season to Rockport Harbour when he was impossiable to get to. Imagine the extra income Johnathon Sheppard collected over the years from those Storm Cat seasons.

[KMO_racing]

I agree the market could be unique in the future with the economy. I already see alot of buyers that were buying 100,000 yearlings 2 years ago are now in the 50 bracket. They are being more conservative. Allways look for the diamond in the ruff!!!!