Sorry to solicit free advice, but i have great respect for the opinions and expertise of many of you on the forum. I own a minor percentage of a mare, currently in-foal to Forestry (i love Forestry). I would like to suggest a mating to the majority owners. May fly, may not.
Here's my thinking (please remember, this is quite new to me):
Mare's Name: QUEEN MAMA
http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... ndard&x2=n
She is a Seattle Slew mare, wonderful pedigree, not much to look at, and has had one foal (Woodman colt) that has impressed noone (never saw it, just been told). The pedigree sheet was too good to pass up. Queen Mama's dam is Hot Novel (7 Starts, 6 Wins, 4 Places, 4 Shows Career Earnings: $380,227) whos progeny include BEHRENS (27 Starts, 9 Wins, 8 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: $4,563,500!).
I looked at Behrens and saw his Sire was Pleasant Colony, who is no longer around. SO: Am I crazy, or would it be a good idea to breed Queen Mama to a son of Pleasant Colony like a) PLEASANTLY PERFECT or b) PLEASANT TAP?
The Werk nick ratings are not so good, like a B. Not sure what the DPI stuff indicates, but I would really welcome any comments.
Thanks in advance... Dray
Need technical advice: Pedigree and Mating
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Bill from WA
- Breeder's Cup Contender
- Posts: 1936
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:20 am
- Location: Mountlake Terrace, WA
I tend to not think Pleasant Colony a good cross with Seattle Slew (Nureyev or Danzig are much better); but you are right in my opinion to be looking at Mari's Book as either a or the key to the mare.
Rahy could be quite interesting given that Mari's Book's granddaughter Ashado combined Rahy's sire Blushing Groom with Saint Ballado, a full brother of Rahy's dam Glorious Song.
-llbean
Rahy could be quite interesting given that Mari's Book's granddaughter Ashado combined Rahy's sire Blushing Groom with Saint Ballado, a full brother of Rahy's dam Glorious Song.
-llbean
Dray,
I notice where she sold at the 2000 Keeneland July Sale (a select sale) for $240,000, considerably less than the $558,00 average for Slew yearlings that year. I conclude that she probably has significant deviations in the front legs, not too uncommon for her sire. So, no matter which horse you decide to use, be sure that he throws good legged foals.
Seattle Slew mares have crossed exceptionally well with Mr. Prospector line stallions, and vice versa. Both stallions trace to Myrtlewood, perhaps the greatest American bred Blue Hen of all time; certainly a great foundation mare for stallions. The obvious problem is that Mr. P. is as lacking in the leg department as Slew. Thus, if you choose this sire line, you must be super selective about conformation.
Bill's suggestion of Came Home is a good one. He is not a big horse, so if you're breeding for the commercial market you must take this into consideration. Perhaps your mare is large enough to compensate. Speightstown is another Gone West candidate (his popularity may double after tonight's Eclipse Awards are awarded); Mr. Greeley is a proven stallion and his fee was just lowered.
I very much like STREET CRY, by Machiavellian. Even though his pedigree suggested turf, he ran strictly on dirt, earning $5 million. I think he's a little below the radar screen in KY, and is good value at $30,000 (or less).
Then there's SMART STRIKE at $30,000.
Perhaps others on the board who have seen these horses could comment on their conformation. Good luck
I notice where she sold at the 2000 Keeneland July Sale (a select sale) for $240,000, considerably less than the $558,00 average for Slew yearlings that year. I conclude that she probably has significant deviations in the front legs, not too uncommon for her sire. So, no matter which horse you decide to use, be sure that he throws good legged foals.
Seattle Slew mares have crossed exceptionally well with Mr. Prospector line stallions, and vice versa. Both stallions trace to Myrtlewood, perhaps the greatest American bred Blue Hen of all time; certainly a great foundation mare for stallions. The obvious problem is that Mr. P. is as lacking in the leg department as Slew. Thus, if you choose this sire line, you must be super selective about conformation.
Bill's suggestion of Came Home is a good one. He is not a big horse, so if you're breeding for the commercial market you must take this into consideration. Perhaps your mare is large enough to compensate. Speightstown is another Gone West candidate (his popularity may double after tonight's Eclipse Awards are awarded); Mr. Greeley is a proven stallion and his fee was just lowered.
I very much like STREET CRY, by Machiavellian. Even though his pedigree suggested turf, he ran strictly on dirt, earning $5 million. I think he's a little below the radar screen in KY, and is good value at $30,000 (or less).
Then there's SMART STRIKE at $30,000.
Perhaps others on the board who have seen these horses could comment on their conformation. Good luck
Last edited by Michael on Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is not crazy to breed to a son of Pleasant Colony
You have a well bred mare and to breed to blood that contains Pleasant Colony may be good. It is just that Pleasant Colony has not been a sire of sires. You have several options like breeding to blood that line breeds on Ribot and Double Jay like Behrens. You can also go with blood of His Majesty. There are several stallions like Pleasant Tap, Pleasantly Perfect,and Forbidden Apple. Albert the Great could be another option as he is a by a 3/4 brother to Pleasant Tap being by Go for Gin who is by another son of His Majesty in Cormorant. Albert the Great made $3,012,490. Bowman's Band is by Dixieland Band-Hometown Queen by Pleasant Colony and he made $1,295,774. Ecton Park contains blood of Northern Dancer,Double Jay and Ribot and he made $1,503,825. I am not suggesting you breed to Lemon Drop Kid but he is by a son of Mr. Prospector in Kingmambo and out of Charming Lassie by Seattle Slew. Cigar is by Palace Music-Solar Slew by Seattle Slew coming from the Northern Dancer line as he is by a son of The Minstrel. Dixie Union who stands for $30,000 is by Dixieland Band-She's Tops by Capote and he made $1,233,190. His broodmare sire is by a son of Seattle Slew. Tiznow is by Cee's Tizzy and line bred on Northern Dancer and his broodmare sire is Seattle Song another son of Seattle Slew. Golden Attraction who was champion two year old filly is by Mr. Prospector-Seaside Attraction by Seattle Slew. Cape Town who won the Florida Derby and sired Bird Town is by Seeking the Gold-Seaside Attraction by Seattle Slew. Seeking the Pearl is by Seeking the Gold-Page Proof by Seattle Slew. She made over $4,000,000. Petitionville a son of Seeking the Gold has done well at stud and he stands for $15,000. He has done well with mares who are by sons of Seattle Slew. Seattle Slew seems to like Buckpasser breeding and Petitionville is line bred Buckpasser 3x4. Remember Slew O Gold was out of Alluvial by Buckpasser and A.P. Indy's second dam is by Buckpasser. One thing about nicks is that they do not recognize mares and how they cross and you know Hot Novel does cross with Pleasant Colony. One thing I like to see in a pedigree is very influential mares like Somethingroyal, Special, Weekend Surprise, Almahmoud, Glorious Song,Exclusive, Grey Flight, La Troienne, Aspidistra, Numbered Account,Primal Force,Too Bald,Crimson Saint, Glowing Tribute, Cap and Bells, Courtly Dee, Kamar, Ballade, Shenanigans, Fall Aspen,Mumtaz Begum, Mumtaz Mahal, and many other numerous mares that I could mention. Whoever you breed your mare to I wish you the best of luck.
Keith
Keith
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Bill from WA
- Breeder's Cup Contender
- Posts: 1936
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:20 am
- Location: Mountlake Terrace, WA
Hi
Michael pretty much covered the reasons that I like Came Home for your mare. Her pedigree is begging for a Mr Prospector line stallion. Another reason I like Came Home is that his female family is the same as In Reality's, offering a cross (with Seattle Slew's female family) that is found in the pedigrees of Officer and Tiznow. This mating produces a pretty well balanced speed to stamina ratio. I also agree with Michael in that Street Cry or Smart Strike may be viable choices. Another that you might consider would be Smoke Glacken.
Bill
Michael pretty much covered the reasons that I like Came Home for your mare. Her pedigree is begging for a Mr Prospector line stallion. Another reason I like Came Home is that his female family is the same as In Reality's, offering a cross (with Seattle Slew's female family) that is found in the pedigrees of Officer and Tiznow. This mating produces a pretty well balanced speed to stamina ratio. I also agree with Michael in that Street Cry or Smart Strike may be viable choices. Another that you might consider would be Smoke Glacken.
Bill
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes
I can't add much to what's already been said, but the other great racehorse through Mari's Book is Congaree by Arazi. So the Blushing Groom line is one to consider.
Seattle Slew mares when bred to sons of Mr. Prospector have produced three times the stakes winning percentage as SS's broodmare sire average of 7% (a whopping 21% SW as of 2003). Carson City, Jade Hunter, Kingmambo, Miner's Mark and Cape Town all produced winners of over $400K, with Lemon Drop Kid from Kingmambo a multi-millionaire.
Northern Dancer son matings have been higher than his average as well at 10%, with his best by Danzig, Topsider, Nureyev, and Dixieland Band.
Stravinsky might fill the bill with his combination of Nureyev, Blushing Groom, and Mr. Prospector. Another more expensive option is Grand Slam, who combines Gone West, El Gran Senor, and Key to the Mint (and he has some size on him). My personal pick if I had the money. If for sales, Stravinsky has the best ratio to stud fee, followed by Forestry and Grand Slam. They all have wonderful families, top and bottom.
Seattle Slew mares when bred to sons of Mr. Prospector have produced three times the stakes winning percentage as SS's broodmare sire average of 7% (a whopping 21% SW as of 2003). Carson City, Jade Hunter, Kingmambo, Miner's Mark and Cape Town all produced winners of over $400K, with Lemon Drop Kid from Kingmambo a multi-millionaire.
Northern Dancer son matings have been higher than his average as well at 10%, with his best by Danzig, Topsider, Nureyev, and Dixieland Band.
Stravinsky might fill the bill with his combination of Nureyev, Blushing Groom, and Mr. Prospector. Another more expensive option is Grand Slam, who combines Gone West, El Gran Senor, and Key to the Mint (and he has some size on him). My personal pick if I had the money. If for sales, Stravinsky has the best ratio to stud fee, followed by Forestry and Grand Slam. They all have wonderful families, top and bottom.
Rocking H
hey henthorn, good to hear from ya.... and thanks for the advice. hopefully, i can swing some influence about the mating of queen mama.
Of all the sires, these are the most interesting to me:
1) Aldebaren
2) Congaree
3) Carson City
4) Ecton Park
5) Came Home
leaning toward turf:
1) Street Cry
2) Nureyev
Any thoughts on these?
Of all the sires, these are the most interesting to me:
1) Aldebaren
2) Congaree
3) Carson City
4) Ecton Park
5) Came Home
leaning toward turf:
1) Street Cry
2) Nureyev
Any thoughts on these?
dray, a couple of the stallions you like--Nureyev and Carson City--are dead although both, of course, both have sons that are still available.
Since you suspect your mare has physical issues, it would help if you could find out exactly what they are. Some of these stallions are more correct than others and considering that Queen Mama's Woodman colt (the only offspring so far) wasn't very good, it would be easier to make a recommendation if we knew what we were trying to avoid doubling up on.
Since you suspect your mare has physical issues, it would help if you could find out exactly what they are. Some of these stallions are more correct than others and considering that Queen Mama's Woodman colt (the only offspring so far) wasn't very good, it would be easier to make a recommendation if we knew what we were trying to avoid doubling up on.
Aldebaran has an awesome pedigree
Aldebaran is by the sire of sires in Mr. Prospector and he comes from a very strong female family. He is a champion and a half brother to millionaire Good Journey. His first and 2nd dams are champions. His 2nd dam Aviance produced Grade I winning millionaire Denon and Imperfect Circle the dam of champion Spinning World. The fourth dam Best in Show was 1982 broodmare of the year. His colts should bring lots of money. For whatever reason Ecton Parks foals have not brought alot of money. Came Home is a nice horse and you can not go wrong with a multiple grade 1 winning son of Gone West. Another son of Gone West that you may consider is Johar who won the Breeder's Cup Turf and he stands for half the price of Aldebaran and Came Home. But if you are gambling on the next big sire Aldebaran looks the best especially being a son of Mr. Prospector. I really do like Congaree alot but I would not suggest line breeding on Mari's Book because he is not what you would consider a extremely successful racehorse or sire that would be one you would usually consider line breeding on but where he is doubled up on Almahmoud he has became a successful broodmare sire. Street Cry is a very successful racehorse with lots of European breeding. Very successful racehorses like Street Cry could go onto be great sires but like any unproven sire he is a gamble. Conformation is something I would look at strongly for whatever sire you choose.
Keith
Keith
Last edited by Keith on Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.