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 Post subject: 32 family numbers
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:43 am 
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2yo Maiden

Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:43 am
Posts: 88
Location: england
Are there any useful patterns that show up in 32 family numbers in a 5gen pedigree?

I mean the numbers on the right side of the pedigree page.

For example, if the 16th and 32nd family number is the same, is that good or irrelevant? L.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Breeder's Cup Winner

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:46 pm
Posts: 2212
The family numbers will give you a rough idea on what kind of mtDNA the horse has. As more research comes to light, mtDNA seems to have a profound effect on how energy is used by the cell.

mtDNA is transmitted from egg to egg to egg, with colts having their dam's mtDNA type.

So if a colt is from family 1-x, his dam will also be 1-x and so on back through the generations.

There may be a connection between racing ability and mtDNA. For example a successful racehorse from family 1-x has structural parts that work well with that type of mtDNA. The theory is that if you select the sire and dam by family number, you increase the chances that everything will work together.

There's a study with 1,000 horses showing 5 distinct energy signatures, 3 sprinting and 2 staying. However the study didn't indicate which horses were in which group.

Hope this helps. It is a complicated subject.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:40 pm
Posts: 175
"There's a study with 1,000 horses showing 5 distinct energy signatures, 3 sprinting and 2 staying. However the study didn't indicate which horses were in which group."


Five mitochondrial signatures, or five energy groups? And why would any study, especially if publicly funded, identify sprinters and stayers and then refuse to identify them?

Obviously need more info, like who, when, how, why and where.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:21 am 
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Breeder's Cup Winner

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http://thoroughbredgenetics.com/Mitochondrion%206(2006)%2053-66.pdf

Here's the study in gene geek speak.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Grade III Winner

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 1024
My own totally unscientific analysis shows that some families "like" either themselves or other families, and that some families "like" certain sire lines. For example:

2-d likes 2-d, 1-s, 1-x, and 4-m, among others.

4-m REALLY likes more 4-m more than anything else.

1-x likes 1-x & also 1-s, from which it came (La Troienne was born into 1-s, but her offspring are all from 1-x, since she started that family). But 1-x seems to cross well with more lines than a lot of other families.

Some families seem to have an affinity for a sire line, not another dam line. I have a mare whose family LOVES Storm Cat. I'm not Storm Cat's biggest fan, but would look for a sound Storm Cat guy for that mare. (And she is Family 4-m - which means in other circumstances, I'd expect that she should love Dixieland Band or the late great Cryptoclearance. And I should really look for a good Storm Cat son from family 4-m - that should be her ultimate cross.)

Family 9-c is interesting - the family of both Nasrullah & of Turn-To's sire, Royal Charger - so this family seems to "nick" with Nasrullah & Turn-To line sires. In other words, if the family is 9-c, you'd stop looking for a female family & start looking for a Nasrullah or Turn-To (or other Royal Charger) top line. That's not the sire-to-sire nick that shows up on nick ratings. But I've just noticed it working a lot.

There are lots of nicks like that - but I think it is harder to program than the sire-to-sire nicks (brogers, if you can do this with one of your programs, I'll be a fan forever!).

While some of the families have been proven to be genetically different from what Bruce Lowe originally said they were - you can still use it as a shorthand in recent generations to see successful crosses.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Breeder's Cup Winner

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:46 pm
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http://tbheritage.com/GenMarkers.html

Here's one of the studies that started sorting out the female families by mtDNA. Less technical than some, and can't get a better title "Who's your Momma"


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