Need QH breeding forum, any suggestions?

[aurora]

I'm thinking about doing an embryo transfer on a tb mare next year and then breeding her on a subsequent heat to a tb. I would be getting two foals out of the same mare in the same year. I need some QH breeding advice. Any QH forums out there I should go to?

[Thunder]

AQHA and click racing forum

[lotsahorsin]

I was thinkin about the same thing this year....Makes you wonder at the possibilities of getting a breed approved foal from APHA, ApHC and QH as well as carrying her own TB foal-wouldn't that boggle the poor guys doing pedigree research??? Oh the fun....

[ZiaLand]

Aurora, that's a very interesting concept I wonder if this has been done with any success by some of the major breeders? I'm thinking of the possibilities of producing TB and QH offspring out of the same mare in the same year for the commercial market.

Storm Cat had two grand-prodigy that were All American Futurity finalists last year (they ran 1st and 3rd). Seems some of the sprinting TB lines can easily go either way. Hmmmm... The breeding costs, vet and mare care would double and I'd need to feed the surrogates year round, but that could easily be absorbed by the profits of two foals. It would be twice the research to come up with good matches in both breeds, but that's doable. Another advantage is that a mare who might never produce a TB stakes winner might produce a QH SW, and then her broodmare career could be tailored in the future to what she produces best.

Is there a downside or a drawback I'm not seeing? Most importantly, would there by any potential harm to the broodmare?

Aurora, as to your question on QHs stallions. Depending on your mares' bloodlines, propensity and body type, I'd go with one of the standards -- a proven son or grandson of Dash For Cash or Chick's Beduino. Easy Jet was also major sire of sires in the past, but I never cared for his conformation. We had a lot of success with the Bold Ruler bloodlines in our QHs, especially through What Luck(TB) who produced running champions in both breeds.

Good luck!

Laurie

[aurora]

Good suggestion re going with a son/grandson of Dash For Cash or Beduino but it seems like the majority of stallions are bred this way. I am only casually familiar with the QH stallions so was hoping I could tap into someone more knowledgeable. Since I would be breeding a TB mare, I would want a stallion that sure 'nuf looks like a QH and not a TB himself.

As far as a drawback, breeding a QH foal for me would be secondary to getting a TB foal. In that case, there would need to be some cut-off date where if the transfer didn't take I would no longer be trying for a QH foal. Something akin to 'closing the breeding shed' on, say, March 31st. This would be for a young, open mare that would be ready to breed in early Feb.

[ZiaLand]

Aurora, my knowledge of QH breeding is almost 20 years old so I can't offer you much on "current events" when it comes to breeding. You might want to try this AQHA site link for starters and study the recent winners of the big QH races and their bloodlines, etc.

http://www.aqha.com/racing/latest/allamerican/index.html

Laurie

[lotsahorsin]

I bred my TB mare-who's 16.2hh-to a 15hh absolutely huge foundation stud-used for cutting...I "should" get more width and some of the height from the mare-may also get the short end of it-a small skinny thing lol.
http://www.qhd.com/horse/stallionauction.asp
this is a link to a site with listings of stallion futurities-great way to take the leap with 1/2 price stud fees.
This same mare will be bred to a son of Apalachee out of a good producing Norcliffe mare-can't wait to see what happens there....if she isn't sold of course.

[brooke]

Im taking a TB mare this Year to OKEY DOKEY DALE= QH he really seems to be doing well when crossed with large sprinting TB mares. cant wait to see what the outcome is.

[Shannon]

Not to rain on the parade, but have you LOOKED into what embryo transfer costs? LOTS! Most vets will not have any less than 4 recipient mares at any one time cycling. I have a very good friend who worked for a vet for 3 years doing embryo transfer and he finally gave up because people did not want to pay all the costs. I would strongly suggest researching success rates among your chosen vets before commiting, and also finding out EXACTLY what costs are involcved...it is way more complicated than just breeding your mare. Also, you need to check with the JC as to whether or not that is allowed ( I can't see why not, but you never know).. As far as choosing a stallion, good luck. There are not many proven nicks of TB mares to QH stallions, but I have noticed amny Three Martinis mares do very well on QH studs, as do Murrtheblurr mares. Otherwise, look for a stallion that throws early speed (I know they ALL do somewhat), but look for ones who have really fast 350 yard types. If your mare was a sprinter type, then you should have better luck. Also, think hard as to what you will do with the resulting QH foal. Are you going to race it yourself? Sell it privately (IMO, the best move if you can do it), or take it to a sale. Think hard about how much you will put into the QH foal before sale time, vs the stud fee and what the faol would sell for AT BEST. Make sure it is worth it! You could stand to lose a lot if the recipeint mare loses that foal, or something happens before you sell it.

[madelyn]

Embryo transfer is not just a major sin against nature, it can be a pocket killer. It doesn't hold a candle, morally, against artificial insemination, in terms of judging it -- AI is at least not invasive! I think it is a deep, personal insult to the mare herself. Not to mention the costs.... would you want your embryo torn out of you and put in a surrogate "wife" because your husband wanted you to continue to compete as a "perfect 10 wife"? Before you scream about gonzo journalism, just think about it. And for those of you who screamed earlier about sexism on this topic, think about all of the sperm you "donated" to all those adoring ladies before you actually got one you wanted a child with. Mares are not all that different, some are probably smarter.. well not the Palominos. But if you don't think mares don't know what is going on, you know not much... It is the studs that are bumbling idiots. We ask these horses to carry our hopes, wishes and dreams along with their jockeys. In return they deserve to be treated with care, respect and courtesy and not like some kind of detested lab rat.

[Shannon]

Madelyn. Just to clarify how embryo transfer actually works. The mare is cycled normally, bred normally (AI or live cover). She is ultrasounded to find her ovulation time. After she has ovulated, within a certain time frame I cannot right now recall, the ovum (egg) is flushed out of the uterus the same as any normal uterine flush is performed. The fluid flushed out of the mare is collected into a sterile recepticle. The fluid is then slowly run across a microscope screen. The ovum is collected from the fluid and placed into sterile/sealed container. It is then placed into the awaiting recipient mare. Embryo transfer is in no way invasive to the mare, any more than your routine breeding care. The mare has no idea that she will not carry her foal, nor that she was ever in foal. It is no different than the mare simply not getting in foal during a regular cycle.
Moral issues come under a different heading altogether, and only on an individual basis are they applicable.