Tools of the Trade

[Joltman]

I am wondering what tools the board users actually use when planning their matings. There are lots of things out there, and not one is the be-all, end-all but I am curious as to what you actually use. Let's assume everyone uses the basics of the Pedigree Query, and freebie Five Cross from Equibase. What are your top 3?

Here are a few that come to mind in no particular order:

1. True Nicks
2. ENicks
3. G1 Database
4. American Produce Records on CD
5. GSV - George's calculation
6. Large Heart - Xfactor studies/calculations
7. Auction Price analysis
8. Conduit mare analysis - (Bill from Wa)
9. Indexes of Sire, BMSire, Female family (BRIS, Jockey Club)
10. Conformational measurement - Biomechanics
11. Other female family data analysis?
12. Airway/breathing analysis

For my 2 cents, I would select
- G1 Database
- Indexes of Sires etc.
- Enicks

jm

- Am also interested in what you would pay for (as opposed to freebies), for both breed to sell and breed to race.

[Crystal]

I use TrueNicks, APR, and also I try to get an idea of how the mare looks in conformation. (If possible) and how her body type may match up with the stallion.

[karenkarenn]

I rarely use True Nicks and Werk nicks because seldom are they accurate.
Secondly, I look to see what my mare did on the track and try to pick a like with like. If she is a sprinter then I get a sprinter. Even though her pedigree might say stayer. Not going to bred a stallion that has made great 10 F horses if my mare sprinted.
The G1 database only has the linebreeding or inbreeding and what has worked well with that, so I really don't concider that too much.

I also go through the sire to see what he has done well with as a broodmare sire. And I see what my mares sisters and brothers, and dam have also crossed well with.
Then I look at the prospective stallion and see what his dam has crossed well with. Can't ignore the dams but we can't just make a report on the dam. Its both.
On the JC I also do a hypothetical to see if the stallion has crossed previously with my mares stallion. And to see if he has crossed with my mare dam's sire.
Then it would be down to the final three, see what they have done at sales and their racing progeny.
As far as paying to breed or sell or race, please explain.

[Crystal]

[quote="karenkarenn"]I rarely use True Nicks and Werk nicks because seldom are they accurate.
I also go through the sire to see what he has done well with as a broodmare sire. And I see what my mares sisters and brothers, and dam have also crossed well with.
On the JC [b]I also do a hypothetical to see if the stallion has crossed previously with my mares stallion. And to see if he has crossed with my mare dam's sire. [/b][/quote]

Isn't that what part of WERK/TrueNicks already do? I'm not pushing either one but how are they not accurate? Are the Graded stake winners wrong or you just dont follow the letter grade? There is a lot of valuable information listed with the hypos on each page beside an A++ - F rating.

[karenkarenn]

Because there are alot of different situations out there.
For example ever heard of the saying, " he/she ran well" How many horses just miss in the final steps. How many horses ran a GOOD or Great forth esp in a stakes races just missing a third to be noticed by paper.
Not to many Enicks or True nicks say on the report- 4th but only beaten one length or a half of a length.
Or
This horse did better staying than sprinting and if given a chance they could have been better 1 1/4. I like to watch the videos myself. Make my own judge. Really get a thorough view of what happened.
Its an EXPENSIVE sport no doubt. Why not work at it instead of having someone else tell you what to do based off of sire and sire.
Or dam and Dam.
Everything conbined paints the picture.

[Joltman]

Anybody out there using any of the others in the toolbag?

jm

[Sysonby]

I've downsized to the point that I am down to 1 mare who had her 6th foal this year so I know her and her sire pretty well. I either use Truenicks or eNicks to get a sense of the 5 generation pedigree after I have narrowed down which stallions I am interested in. To get to that point, I talk to people I know from the track and the farms about what they have been seeing at the sales and the races regarding certain stallions. I also use the Bloodhorse stallion register to make my final selection.

[LB]

I use TrueNicks, G1 Goldmine, and Tesio Power for looking at potential pedigrees. I see all the stallions in person and since I pretty much live at the sales when they're going on, I see tons of offspring too. Tools that can be found on a computer are great, but I also want to make sure I have a really good physical match. Like Sysonby I know my own mares and their families very well, so I have a pretty good idea what works with them and what doesn't.

I think the BloodHorse stallion register (online version) is a great resource for making lots of good information very readily available.

[griff]

one question is what do you sure to [lan your nicks.. the second, and more important, is how are what you use working for you..

griff

[Joltman]

there is the old adage about lying with statistics.

Probably most on the board don't breed enough to make their results statistically significant. Still, most of the tools out there deal with numbers, statistics, counts, probabilities so while one's one method might not ultimately get him or her the big horse, on average, it would with enough tries. Most of us run out of money first...

jm