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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:20 pm 
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I recently purchased a Footstepsinthesand filly named Queen of the Sand to race in California, but with a view to breed later. She is currently getting ready to run in the next few weeks. She has won 4 races in Ireland (three on Polytrack at 7f and a mile, one at 7f on turf). I bought her because I really liked the back class in the bottom line.

I know I am looking a long way ahead, but I thought the first stallion I would use would be Blame, because of the inbreeding to Thong through Special and Lisadell. Here is the Hypomating link:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php? ... F+THE+SAND

Any thoughts on this breeding, and any other suggestions?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:03 pm 
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You bought well.

I backed this horse a couple of times, tough genuine consistant horse.
Just a little below Listed (stakes) class on the all weather surface here in Ireland.

She beat some nice horse in handicaps - getting weight from them but she still had to win.

What about Candy Ride - Blame is untried as a stallion?
Candy Ride is churning out good horses from the Storm Cat line mares he is getting and they are winning locally (in California).

He is only an extra $5,000 more than Blame an is a proven commodity.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Thanks Dublino. I must say, Candy Ride was one of the four stallions I picked out, along with Blame, Lemon Drop Kid and More than Ready. Candy Ride is an A++ Truenicks nick with my mare.

I was just intrigued by the fact that Blame's bottom line also goes back to Thong, and they are both from the 5-h family. Also, it seems to follow the Olin Gentry breeding maxim "Return to the sire the best blood of his dam."

Footstepsinthesand just had a winner at a mile on Turf (which I imagine will be the best distance for my mare) at Santa Anita today.

Queen of the Sand arrived at Santa Anita on January 27th. My trainer is notorious for taking his time and giving horses a chance to settle in, so even though her last race was only two months before that (Nov 27) she is only just galloping and getting used to the dirt surface and the new surroundings of a racetrack rather than a trainer's yard right now.

I hear what you say about her handicap races, but she was had gone up in the handicap by the time of her last two races (winning the last race carrying 9 stone 5lbs, or as we say over here 131lbs, and finishing a close third carrying 9 stone 8lbs (134lbs)) and it was probably getting hard to place her, so that's why they sold her.

Her races are listed here:
http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_ ... horse_form

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 Post subject: Thong Inbreeding
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:34 pm 
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This database lists about 2600 horses inbred to Thong 5x5 or closer. It appears the strike rate or stakes horses is about 6.5%. Certainly not shabby but not as much as I would have guessed. Nice mare best of luck with her.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:26 am 
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English Channel. Puts Nureyev and his 100% genetic equivelent sister Lisaleen, nicely in the 4th generation of the resulting foals pedigree- sex balanced linebreeding at it's best.


Last edited by Jeff on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:49 am 
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Your filly ran its best races in the evening time under lights and in the cold - it will be interesting to see if the hot California sun can bring out something in her.

She'd be a hell of a nice filly if she could get some black type.

I like the More than Ready angle also and am a Big fan of Lemon Drop Kid.

Good luck with whatever you do - post some pics and keep us updated when she wins her next start!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Thanks again Dublino. I will keep you posted and give you a heads up when she is going to run.

hpkingjr: Obviously with the huge amounts of Nuryev and Sadler's Wells in modern pedigrees, the Thong duplication is very common. However, is there any way of checking how many times it appears in the tail female of both the stallion and dam, rather than just anywhere in the pedigree?

Jeff. Thanks for the English Channel suggestion. It looks good too. I do find it very strange that the Truenicks nick with English Channel is B+, and yet the nick with English Channel's sire, Smart Strike is only a D, when Smart Strike has several grades SWs including My Miss Aurelia, when bred to Storm Cat line mares.

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 Post subject: Sadlers Wells
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:36 pm 
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So I couldn't figure out how to answer your question so I just changed the question. I picked Sadlers Wells because he was an elite stallion with lots of progeny. He had 68 foals from family 5h. There were 12 stakes horses. (About an eighteen per cent rate). Of the 12 stakes horses, 4 were tail female to Thong. There were 3 grade 1 winners out of the 4 and the other placed 2nd in a grade 1.

From this unscientific study, when it works, it is at a very high level.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Looking at Blame's stallion page can give you a horse-crush. It will be exciting to see if his 2 year olds can deliver. As for English Channel, I am breeding two mares to him this week, both of whom have multiples of 5-H in their pedigrees and that was a plus for me. English Channel is nicking pretty well with mares carrying 5-H, whether through Sadlers Wells, or through Lear Fan, or if the mare has some Nureyev, etc.

Like you, I would like any statistics on what happens when it is tail-femaile in both the stallion and the mare. What Hpkingjr found was fascinating re: the sadlers wells angle with his stakeswinners going tail female to 5-h.

A little further back, but Malibu Moon has Green Dancer which carries some 5-H, and Haynesfield offers it through Apalachee. The MM is an A+ nick and Haynesfield is a D to your mare.

Love your mare's pedigree. She has a lot going for her not the least of which is running talent. She's a keeper!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:09 am 
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I would second the Candy Ride nomination - noting the impending nick - but also because of Woodman's affinity for him. I owned a Candy Ride out of a Woodman mare...and she could run. This mare brings a lot to Candy Ride that he likes.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Mac: Judging by the fact that Blame was the leading freshman sire at the 2013 yearling sales, he must be producing good looking foals. I can't wait to see some of them run, hopefully as two year olds this year. If he is as successful as I think he is going to be, it would take some of the guesswork out of my decision.

The other thing that makes me lean towards him is that the cross also gives 5x5 to Buckpasser, a duplication I love to see.

hpkingjr Thanks for that. It certainly reinforces my willingness to take a gamble on Blame.

ct2346 Thanks too. I will certainly consider Candy Ride as one of the first two or three matings.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:50 am 
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Hyphen posted a nice article on High Chaparral in the stallion blog. Noticed a paragraph that might warm you heart:

The connection with Sir Tristram's most successful son Zabeel brings into the pedigree the inbreeding to the mare Special through 3/4 brothers Sadler’s Wells and Nureyev. That this could be one of the key elements to develop High Chaparral’s talent is proved by the pedigrees of other black-type winners with the same inbreeding. Inbreeding to Special can be found in Wigmore Hall, Petit Chevalier, Beach Bunny or Lady Lupus, where the influence of Special is through Nureyev but not Zabeel, but also in High Chaparral’s only Gr.1 two-year-old winner Wrote, the winner of the Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Turf who comes directly from Special’s family, or the Gr.3 winner and Epsom Oaks-placed High Heeled, who is inbred to Special’s daughter Fairy Bridge through the influence of Sadler’s Wells’s brother Fairy King. Among fifty-four black-type winners by High Chaparral, therefore, we can find eight horses inbred to Special and one inbred to Fairy Bridge.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:37 am 
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With Kitten's Joy you'd get: Northern Dancer 4x5x6x6; Buckpasser 5x5; Roberto 4x6; Tom Fool 5x6x6.

I feel about Northern Dancer much as Mark Twain did about whisky: "too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

For what it's worth True Nicks rates this an A mating -- to which I'd add: "Past Performance is No Guarantee of Future Results".

I wish you well with your fine filly/mare.

Allison Roulston

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:41 pm 
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hpkingjr: thanks for that reference. I actually had a mare (Splendeur) boarded at Coolmore, Ireland for four seasons until I sold her in last year's November Sale, and she had a foal by High Chaparral.

I have also looked at the hypo matings of a few other Coolmore stallions for Queen of the Sand, including Fastnet Rock, Henrythenavigator, Rip van Winkle and Mastercraftsman.

Queen of the Sand needs another two works before she is ready to run. She doesn't seem to care for the dirt, so we are going to try to give her those two breezes on the grass. She breezed 3f in 36.80 yesterday and galloped out in 49.

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 Post subject: Re: A further thought
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:45 pm 
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I have found TrueNicks to be misleading and oversimplified because of the sole focus on the Sire to Broodmare Sire relationship. I strongly encourage you to run a Key Ancestor report on this mare in order to get the complete picture.

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