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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:14 am 
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In my imaginary life as a horse breeder, I am buying Stonetastic, a mare by Mizzen Mast,
out of an Unbridled's Song mare. She has two crosses of Caro and was incredibly fast
at distances between 5 - 7 furlongs. She placed in a G1, and is a multiple stakes winner.

I would like to consider adding an additional cross of Caro to her foal, via my imaginary
stallion selection. Nice to have, but not necessary.

Who would you suggest I spend my stallion bucks on, and what would be your rationale
for stallion selection?

I know RunHappy is unproven, but he does have an additional cross of Caro, and he, too,
was very fast at sprint distances. He was one stallion I thought of- what does everyone think?
Who else would be of interest?

I hope we can have some fun with this. Thanks for reading!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:16 pm 
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LOL, Well your a California Chrome fan. Why don't you start there and have a disabled horse.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:35 pm 
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KarenKaren,
I don't know what your issue with me is today, but I think I will just leave you to it. So far you have implied I am illogical (not true- science and math degree), insinuated C.C. will have disabled babies, and called C.C.'s career a sham. For some reason you seem to have knickers in a bunch today, and I am more than willing to leave you to
your evident personal unhappiness. If my attempt to stimulate discussion on these boards has offended you, I don't understand why, and I frankly don't care.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:42 pm 
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You want to learn, go to see CC. Cause I did.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Caro does seem to be active with this family: not only is Stonetastic by Mizzen Mast, she is from the female family of Our New Recruit.

There is also a very good runner out of a Partner's Hero half-sister to Stonetastic's dam by Bwana Charlie, by Indian Charlie.

That brings in Uncle Mo. On racing aptitude--good speed for 5-7 furlongs, that seems like a good match.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:27 am 
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Thanks for your comment, KimberlyMine. I appreciate your insight.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:15 am 
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He's much too cheap for this mare but pedigreewise I really like Creative Cause with this mare. His damsire is Siberian Summer to get your Caro line but there are quite a few other elements to his pedigree to possibly connect well with hers. I like the Storm Cat over Unbridled's Song and the cross, while has proven matches in it, is free of inbreeding other than the Caro lines.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:45 am 
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Thanks, Madelyn. I'm looking forward to see who they breed her to- will follow her babies as I followed her.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:45 pm 
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It will be interesting. I have noticed quite often when a mare like this Stonetastic comes along, the blood alliances in the pedigree seem to get ignored and the mare is bred to the most commercially promising horse possible to try to get 7 figures for the foal. Part of that, though, is from a commercial perspective the mare should be bred to a stallion standing for 1/4 of her value so what is the starting point? What would Stonetastic bring as a broodmare prospect? There is a mare I've been following because she is quite closely related to one of my broodmares, named Sweet Reason, by Street Sense. She made $1.45 million racing and sold for $2.7 million at KEENOV 15 as a BM prospect. Using her as an example, one could very loosely extrapolate that Stonetastic might fetch somewhere around $1.5 mil. So who stands for $375K?? None here. So it's pretty likely then to shoot for the stars with, say, American Pharaoh or Bernardini or something considered "hot". She is a mare that would most likely be welcomed in ANY book.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Money no object huh? I vote for Tapit.

1 AA+ Nick
2 Both Tapit and Caro have Affiinities for a Grass runner
3 Anything bred to Tapit could likely bring 2x the stud fee.
4. Tapits fee is what it is for a reason - breed the best to the best
5. You'll be able to spot the horse on the backstretch.

jm

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:35 am 
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Thanks, Joltman. I love the grays too! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:17 pm 
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I really like your title. I just wanted to ask if you think that Stallions who are unknown as far as progeny success are too risky? I think that depending on the line will help determine this. I also love playing the probable pedigree line game. Good Luck


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:59 am 
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I'm not actually a breeder, but I do like to play the "who would you breed her to" game.
I think if I was a breeder, I would not shy away from "unproven" stallions. For example,
I think breeding a suitable mare to Arrogate, once he is retired from racing, would be
a good gamble, even though he is by Unbridled's Song, who has not yet proven
himself as a sire of sires. Arrogate's racing class and brilliance would be well worth
a risk, in my opinion. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:57 pm 
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I love Tapit but I will likely never darken Gainesway's door again in my life...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Affirmed1 wrote:
I'm not actually a breeder, but I do like to play the "who would you breed her to" game.
I think if I was a breeder, I would not shy away from "unproven" stallions. For example,
I think breeding a suitable mare to Arrogate, once he is retired from racing, would be
a good gamble, even though he is by Unbridled's Song, who has not yet proven
himself as a sire of sires. Arrogate's racing class and brilliance would be well worth
a risk, in my opinion. :)


The thing about breeding to unproven stallions is you have no idea if they will be produce winning racehorse foals or not. If you have a proven mare and you know what she will produce (winners or not), unproven stallions are less of a risk.

Arrogate is unquestionably brilliant and probably the best horse in North America this decade. He's also by a stallion who has been underwhelming as a sire of sires. First Defence is probably the best-bred and certainly the best-supported with Juddmonte behind him, and he was last standing for (I think) $7500. Midshipman is probably the best-performed and while he's a useful sire of good racehorses, he's not going to set the world on fire (and TBH he's throwing to his damline...not bad, but that's what it is). The jury is still out on Will Take Charge.

On the female side, Meadow Star was a champion and there's a millionaire about once a generation...but the consistent level of production are useful, talented allowance-class horses. That's NOT BAD, but if you're looking at a horse by Unbridled's Song, maybe having a greater consistency of stakes production would be helpful? Also, there have not been any stallions in the family since Meadow Star's half-brother Optic Nerve, so no idea if the family produces talent with that.

Compare to Take Charge Lady, who has two stakes-winning half-sibs (Eventail and Commendation), stakes production in two of her half-sibs (Eventail and Jessi Take Charge), and two millionaire sons and a daughter who produced a champion. They don't have any stallions in their recent familly either, but that's more due to bad luck (Straight Story dying young).

So with an unproven mare, where her future value as a broodmare depends on only a handful of foals in her lifetime, who do you pick? The once-in-a-lifetime superstar, or the very good horse with the better family behind him?


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