I am trying to finalize 06 breeding plans for my mare Fairy Heights (Fairy King x Commanche Belle). Conformation-wise, she is very correct, medium-sized, 16h, very attractive, but maybe just a touch light-boned. Her 04 Distorted Humor looked extremely good and was scoped 12 times at the Sept Keeneland sales this year, but he did not vet and sold only for 37K. In 2005, she had a Dynaformer that looks fantastic, big and attractive. She's in foal to Street Cry this year. Before the Distorted Humor, she had a Kingmambo and a Silver Hawk, but they were both small and had conformational flaws. She also had a Storm Cat in the past that was also tiny. So perhaps I need to breed to a stallion that has some mass and size. Another factor to consider is that she was a top class runner as a 2YO winning the G1 Fillies Mile before coming second to King's Theatre in the G1 Racing Post Trophy, but she ran nowhere in two starts at 3. So maybe I should breed to a stallion that will pass on soundness?
The Dynaformer this year looks so good, but he's 100K this year, and I'd like to spend less. I'm not sure yet if I am breeding to sell or to race, but I am leaning towards breeding to race at the moment.
Now, these are the stallions I am considering, would love to hear what everyone else thinks. Please feel free to comment on these guys or make other suggestions, but I'm trying to keep the fees under 50K:
Theatrical - doubling up on Special, but is old age a concern?
Mr Greeley - stats are so-so, but has commercial appeal
Pleasant Tap - for breeding to race, passes on soundness
Smoke Glacken - good bone, good stats
Tiznow - another one for soundness
Dixie Union, Yes It's True - both off to a flying start as soph sires
Thanks for everyone's help in advance.
Tom
Need 2006 mating advice for G1 mare Fairy Heights
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If you are looking to breed to race then I would get her on a van and send her out to In Excess. Quite a similar mating to Musical Chimes and he gets runners (?soundness?)
Fairy King hasn't been that great a broodmare sire but he has had two of his best as a broodmare sire with Blushing Groom line stallions so you might consider Cherokee Run.
Byron
www.thepedigreeguru.com
Fairy King hasn't been that great a broodmare sire but he has had two of his best as a broodmare sire with Blushing Groom line stallions so you might consider Cherokee Run.
Byron
www.thepedigreeguru.com
Hi Tom,
First off I want to note that the sire of your mare (Fairy King), while a full brother of Sadlers Wells, is very distinct from him in terms of both aptitude (Fairy King being much more a source of speed) and nicking affinities.
Interestingly, you mare is bred on the same Fairy King/Shirley Heights sire/damsire cross as the French G3W Seltitude and Fairy King and Shirley Heights are found a little bit further back in the great little Australian Sprinting Filly Alinghi (a 4xTime GIW), the American GIW Pharatta, and the German Jaguar Mile (G3) Winner Proudance (note that while a German G3W, Proudance won at the unusually short distance [for Germany] of One Mile).
3 GIWs (Fairy Heights, Alinghi, and Pharatta) is quite a good result for this cross (it's notable that Sadlers Wells also has an affinity with Shirley Heights, who returns Lalun to both the brothers)...
BTW, thanks for the excellent summary of the mare's produce record (its qutie useful in giving advice).
To me, in having a Fairy King mare in the United States of America you are in an excellent position to use the all too rarely used and underrated Fairy King/Slewpy nick.
The important thing to comprehend about this nick is that Seattle Slew's descendants are concentrated in America and Fairy King's are concentrated in Europe and Australia (thus there's little overlap).
And yet in spite of this, Fairy King has combined with Seattle Slew in the Superb European Champions Falbrav (a 8xTime GIW) and Helissio (a 5xTime GIW), the National Stakes (GI) Winner Becket, and finally the 2003 New Zealand Oaks (GI) Winner Bramble Rose.
Looking at her produce record I see this cross hasn't been tried with her yet and I strongly think it should be in 2006.
Tiznow would certainly give you PLENTY of Size with a capital S and Soundness besides bringing in Seattle Slew as the sire of his damsire, so he's worth consideration. It would be 3x5x5 to Northern Dancer through Fairy King, Lyphard, and Nice Dancer ("my three sons") and to me it’s notable that inbreeding to ND through Fairy King and Lyphard has already worked in the previously mentioned Irish National Stakes (GI) Winner Becket besides the G2W Delzao and the MG3W Emlozza.
Actually, and even better source of Seattle Slew in terms of the match-up with this particular mare is Matty G... Significantly, his sire Capote's 3rd dam Dangerous Dame corresponds to Fairy Heights’s 3rd dam Electronic as they both combine the great breed shaping sires Nasrullah and Hyperion within 3 generations. Also, further reinforcement of Electronic's pedigree is found in Matty G's 4th generation ancestor Heliopolis, who is bred on exact same Hyperion/Swynford cross as Electronic's sire's dam Aurora (a very good broodmare worth reinforcing).
And finally, your mare's damsire Shirley Heights' sire Mill Reef creates a very interesting cluster breeding pattern when crossed with Matty G's 2nd dam Soonerland as they both share Nasrullah, Count Fleet, and Princequillo close up.
Theatrical - doubling up on Special, but is old age a concern?
Old age is not a concern in my opinion (though there may be some minor increase in negative sperm mutations that come with age, that still hasn't been stopping Theatrical so far).
Still, the Nureyev/Fairy King cross hasn't worked yet and its notable that even inbreeding to Special through Sadlers Wells and Nureyev has only gotten a high rate of success when the Nureyev comes through Kingmambo or his fellow Miesque son Miesque's Son (note that 4 out of the five GIWs with this Sadlers Wells/Nureyev pattern are in fact either by Kingmambo or Miesque's Son).
Given that this mare has already failed with Kingmambo himself (who has worked so beautifully as a conduit for Special inbreeding), I don't see inbreeding to Special as a good idea with this mare.
Mr Greeley - stats are so-so, but has commercial appeal
There are no indications that Gone West can cross successfully with Fairy King at this point (he has combined with Sadlers Wells in the MGIW Motivator but as I said earlier, Sadlers Wells and his brother were/are two different stallions with fundamentally different distance aptitudes and what works with one won't necessarily work with the other). Also, your mare is very heavy to Hyperion (including Hyperion through sources other than Mr Prospector), and Hyperion through sources other than Northern Dancer (To borrow an idea from Pete Siegel) is a very bad cross for Mr Prospector...
Also, the Fairy King/Seattle Slew cross notwithstanding, there's no indications of an affinity between Fairy King and Bold Ruler (to whom Mr Greeley in inbred intensely).
Pleasant Tap - for breeding to race, passes on soundness
There's nothing much wrong with the mating, but there's nothing much right either... It's notable that returning Pleasant Tap his cross of Never Bend has never worked....
Smoke Glacken - good bone, good stats
Smoke Glacken is one of my favorite sires alive for the money right now. Still, the pedigree might be too American for the mare and the match-up lacks the kind of exciting nicks and pedigree factors found in the Tiznow-Fairy Heights and especially the Matty G-Fairy Heights match-ups.
Dixie Union, Yes It's True - both off to a flying start as soph sires
Dixie Union is interesting as he brings in Capote (a son of Seattle Slew who brings in Dangerous Dame, an interesting relation of Electronic); but the problem is that Capote is one generation further back in DU than in Matty G and that can make all the difference...
The 3x3 to ND is pretty interesting if you're willing to take risks, though I must note that many preach against inbreeding close up through the sireline of the sire and the sireline of the damsire at the same time.
Dixie Union a nice looking bugger though.
Yes Its True has nothing special in the pedigree match-up with this mare...
If you're probably breeding to race anyway, I see no reason not to go with Matty G, a very solid breed to race sire with a positive AEI/CI of 1.28/1.09 (quite good considering 1/5 his offspring of racing age is only 2YO and that his best bred crops are down the pike).
Anyway, forum member Pete Siegel has a high opinion of Matty G, as illustrated by this post he made on August 8th, 2005:
Hi All,
Linda a nice observation about One Dreamer who has considerable blood similarities with Misty Golddigger.
Despite small books and very modest mares, Matty has continued to get quality runners. Including his 2yos of 2005, he has only 119 foals, 6SW and 4 graded stakes winners. From his mature crops he has over 70% winners and 7% SW. He's also had 25% 2yo winners.
He's currently 12th on the 2yo sire list from only 34 foals including G3 winner Deputy G.
Currently he's showing a rising commercial awareness and offers a good chance to breed a profitable foal. The best is yet to come.
Matty has 61 named foals of 2004 and was bred to 123 mares in 2005. It's probable that he will have more foals ready to race in the next two years than he had in all his previous years at stud.
Matty's held on and had his fee rise despite a very limited number of foals (total would be a small crop for an Ashford sire). With superior mares and numbers it's like a first year stallion that you know can get the job done. Mostly upside, little downside.
Regards,
Pete
-llbean
First off I want to note that the sire of your mare (Fairy King), while a full brother of Sadlers Wells, is very distinct from him in terms of both aptitude (Fairy King being much more a source of speed) and nicking affinities.
Interestingly, you mare is bred on the same Fairy King/Shirley Heights sire/damsire cross as the French G3W Seltitude and Fairy King and Shirley Heights are found a little bit further back in the great little Australian Sprinting Filly Alinghi (a 4xTime GIW), the American GIW Pharatta, and the German Jaguar Mile (G3) Winner Proudance (note that while a German G3W, Proudance won at the unusually short distance [for Germany] of One Mile).
3 GIWs (Fairy Heights, Alinghi, and Pharatta) is quite a good result for this cross (it's notable that Sadlers Wells also has an affinity with Shirley Heights, who returns Lalun to both the brothers)...
BTW, thanks for the excellent summary of the mare's produce record (its qutie useful in giving advice).
To me, in having a Fairy King mare in the United States of America you are in an excellent position to use the all too rarely used and underrated Fairy King/Slewpy nick.
The important thing to comprehend about this nick is that Seattle Slew's descendants are concentrated in America and Fairy King's are concentrated in Europe and Australia (thus there's little overlap).
And yet in spite of this, Fairy King has combined with Seattle Slew in the Superb European Champions Falbrav (a 8xTime GIW) and Helissio (a 5xTime GIW), the National Stakes (GI) Winner Becket, and finally the 2003 New Zealand Oaks (GI) Winner Bramble Rose.
Looking at her produce record I see this cross hasn't been tried with her yet and I strongly think it should be in 2006.
Tiznow would certainly give you PLENTY of Size with a capital S and Soundness besides bringing in Seattle Slew as the sire of his damsire, so he's worth consideration. It would be 3x5x5 to Northern Dancer through Fairy King, Lyphard, and Nice Dancer ("my three sons") and to me it’s notable that inbreeding to ND through Fairy King and Lyphard has already worked in the previously mentioned Irish National Stakes (GI) Winner Becket besides the G2W Delzao and the MG3W Emlozza.
Actually, and even better source of Seattle Slew in terms of the match-up with this particular mare is Matty G... Significantly, his sire Capote's 3rd dam Dangerous Dame corresponds to Fairy Heights’s 3rd dam Electronic as they both combine the great breed shaping sires Nasrullah and Hyperion within 3 generations. Also, further reinforcement of Electronic's pedigree is found in Matty G's 4th generation ancestor Heliopolis, who is bred on exact same Hyperion/Swynford cross as Electronic's sire's dam Aurora (a very good broodmare worth reinforcing).
And finally, your mare's damsire Shirley Heights' sire Mill Reef creates a very interesting cluster breeding pattern when crossed with Matty G's 2nd dam Soonerland as they both share Nasrullah, Count Fleet, and Princequillo close up.
Theatrical - doubling up on Special, but is old age a concern?
Old age is not a concern in my opinion (though there may be some minor increase in negative sperm mutations that come with age, that still hasn't been stopping Theatrical so far).
Still, the Nureyev/Fairy King cross hasn't worked yet and its notable that even inbreeding to Special through Sadlers Wells and Nureyev has only gotten a high rate of success when the Nureyev comes through Kingmambo or his fellow Miesque son Miesque's Son (note that 4 out of the five GIWs with this Sadlers Wells/Nureyev pattern are in fact either by Kingmambo or Miesque's Son).
Given that this mare has already failed with Kingmambo himself (who has worked so beautifully as a conduit for Special inbreeding), I don't see inbreeding to Special as a good idea with this mare.
Mr Greeley - stats are so-so, but has commercial appeal
There are no indications that Gone West can cross successfully with Fairy King at this point (he has combined with Sadlers Wells in the MGIW Motivator but as I said earlier, Sadlers Wells and his brother were/are two different stallions with fundamentally different distance aptitudes and what works with one won't necessarily work with the other). Also, your mare is very heavy to Hyperion (including Hyperion through sources other than Mr Prospector), and Hyperion through sources other than Northern Dancer (To borrow an idea from Pete Siegel) is a very bad cross for Mr Prospector...
Also, the Fairy King/Seattle Slew cross notwithstanding, there's no indications of an affinity between Fairy King and Bold Ruler (to whom Mr Greeley in inbred intensely).
Pleasant Tap - for breeding to race, passes on soundness
There's nothing much wrong with the mating, but there's nothing much right either... It's notable that returning Pleasant Tap his cross of Never Bend has never worked....
Smoke Glacken - good bone, good stats
Smoke Glacken is one of my favorite sires alive for the money right now. Still, the pedigree might be too American for the mare and the match-up lacks the kind of exciting nicks and pedigree factors found in the Tiznow-Fairy Heights and especially the Matty G-Fairy Heights match-ups.
Dixie Union, Yes It's True - both off to a flying start as soph sires
Dixie Union is interesting as he brings in Capote (a son of Seattle Slew who brings in Dangerous Dame, an interesting relation of Electronic); but the problem is that Capote is one generation further back in DU than in Matty G and that can make all the difference...
The 3x3 to ND is pretty interesting if you're willing to take risks, though I must note that many preach against inbreeding close up through the sireline of the sire and the sireline of the damsire at the same time.
Dixie Union a nice looking bugger though.
Yes Its True has nothing special in the pedigree match-up with this mare...
If you're probably breeding to race anyway, I see no reason not to go with Matty G, a very solid breed to race sire with a positive AEI/CI of 1.28/1.09 (quite good considering 1/5 his offspring of racing age is only 2YO and that his best bred crops are down the pike).
Anyway, forum member Pete Siegel has a high opinion of Matty G, as illustrated by this post he made on August 8th, 2005:
Hi All,
Linda a nice observation about One Dreamer who has considerable blood similarities with Misty Golddigger.
Despite small books and very modest mares, Matty has continued to get quality runners. Including his 2yos of 2005, he has only 119 foals, 6SW and 4 graded stakes winners. From his mature crops he has over 70% winners and 7% SW. He's also had 25% 2yo winners.
He's currently 12th on the 2yo sire list from only 34 foals including G3 winner Deputy G.
Currently he's showing a rising commercial awareness and offers a good chance to breed a profitable foal. The best is yet to come.
Matty has 61 named foals of 2004 and was bred to 123 mares in 2005. It's probable that he will have more foals ready to race in the next two years than he had in all his previous years at stud.
Matty's held on and had his fee rise despite a very limited number of foals (total would be a small crop for an Ashford sire). With superior mares and numbers it's like a first year stallion that you know can get the job done. Mostly upside, little downside.
Regards,
Pete
-llbean
Horses I would consider
There are several horse I would consider
1. Medaglia D'Oro - Getting 3x4 Northern Dancer and 3x4 Fairy Bridge.
2. Johar- Getting 6x6 Rough Shod II
3. Saint Liam- Getting 5x5 Almahmoud
4. Stormy Atlantic- Getting 5x6 Rough Shod II 2x4 Northern Dancer 6x6x6x6 Nasrullah
5. Sky Mesa-Getting 2x5 Northern Dancer
6. Malibu Moon- Getting 6x6x6x6 Nasrullah
Keith
1. Medaglia D'Oro - Getting 3x4 Northern Dancer and 3x4 Fairy Bridge.
2. Johar- Getting 6x6 Rough Shod II
3. Saint Liam- Getting 5x5 Almahmoud
4. Stormy Atlantic- Getting 5x6 Rough Shod II 2x4 Northern Dancer 6x6x6x6 Nasrullah
5. Sky Mesa-Getting 2x5 Northern Dancer
6. Malibu Moon- Getting 6x6x6x6 Nasrullah
Keith
Last edited by Keith on Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thank you llbean for a great great post. I am seriously considering Tiznow but I just found out they are raising his fee after the Breeders' Cup. Also, thank you Keith for bringing up Medaglia, and Bloodhorse just published Stonewall is offering complimentary seasons to all their stallions... can't beat a free season!
llbean, what do you think of Medaglia? - the cross will return ND and Fairy Bridge 3x4, will that be too close?
llbean, what do you think of Medaglia? - the cross will return ND and Fairy Bridge 3x4, will that be too close?
Sent her to MONSUN in Germany, he offers a complete free ped from ND,
Nasrullah etc. His dosage says nothing as the germans (horses) aren,t evalueted enough in the international scene.
He has been dooiing extremely good 2005. Offering bone, size. etc.
The lightly bones, comes from the shirley heights branch most having lightly bones. Further line breeding wouldn,t showing any better prospects
JMO
Nasrullah etc. His dosage says nothing as the germans (horses) aren,t evalueted enough in the international scene.
He has been dooiing extremely good 2005. Offering bone, size. etc.
The lightly bones, comes from the shirley heights branch most having lightly bones. Further line breeding wouldn,t showing any better prospects
JMO
Tom,
I don't think any inbreeding is too close if it's already proven to work at a better than usual strike rate.
Unfortunately crossing Fairy King and his full brother Sadlers Wells hasn't produced a single Stakes Winner yet and thus there's no hard evidence that they share the right genes to double up on successfully.
Here's a list of the horses crossing the two full brothers in the PQ database:
Horse Sex Year Sire Dam
DIVINA11 F 2001 KINGS THEATRE HEUSTON STATION
TRAPPETO C 2002 BARATHEA CAMPIGLIA
APPLE ISLE M 2003 SAVOIRE VIVRE STRAWBERRY ISLE
DIAMOND STAR6 F 2002 FINAL APPEARANCE COCCO PIO
AIR LE LECTIER C 2002 EL CONDOR PASA AIR REINE
KILLING ME SOFTLY G 2001 KINGSINGER SLIMS LADY
FRENNI GIRL F 2000 VICTORY NOTE FEMALE LEAD
UNIT ONE G 2003 FINAL APPEARANCE COCCO PIO
ETOLIA4 M 2002 TURTLE ISLAND SCENIC SPIRIT
TARQUE G 2000 REVOQUE TARQUINIA2
KERRYSKICK C 2002 DIKTAT URCHIN
MARJAYOUN C 2001 MEDAALY MERVILLE
FALBRAVCEM F 2004 FALBRAV KEMENCEM
DIAMOND STAR DEN M 2002 FINAL APPEARANCE COCCO PIO
THE POSH F 2001 TANNENKONIG THE BASTIENNE
SARA BARAS F 1999 TURTLE ISLAND STREET KENDRA
XCEL H 1999 REVOQUE MYRAN
ANNEES DOR F 2003 REVOQUE AKAYID
CRASH CALL C 2003 TWO TWENTY TWO CRASH CALL LADY
OBERONS DREAM G 2001 VICTORY NOTE SO FAR AWAY
KENMURE CASTLE C 2000 REVOQUE CASINO ACE
MY FAIR LAGO M 1999 ENCOSTA DE LAGO SUNFLOWER18
BETTER MOMENT G 1997 TURTLE ISLAND SNOOZEANDYOULOSE
RED ROCKS2 C 2003 GALILEO4 PHARMACIST
ORTRUD5 F 2002 SECOND EMPIRE OPERA SONG
PENRITH2 C 2001 SINGSPIEL QUEEN MAT
THOMAS OF BATHWICK C 2003 BECKETT2 BATHWICK BABE
CHARNEY F 2001 CHARNWOOD FOREST LEAGHILLAUN
FATIMAT C 2002 MEDAALY FLAMME4
Some of them are only two years old, but there's still 22 3 Years Old or Older and not a single one is marked down as a Graded or Group Stakes winner (you can double check if there's any Stakes Winners period; but I did a cursory examination and didn't find any and none of the names look familar to me).
Also, this particular mare has already been used a conduit for Northern Dancer and Special inbreeding (see her Kingmambo foal) without success, and there's enough similarity between Fairy King / Sadlers Wells and Nureyev / Sadlers Wells that this may be taken as a bit discouraging.
If Stonewall's offering complimentary seasons to all their stallion, how about Doneraile Court? He brings in a nice close cross of his sire Seattle Slew for Fairy King (see the great Helissio, Falbrav and the additional GIWs Becket and Bramble Rose) and it would also effect 4x5x5 inbreeding to Hail To Reason, an VERY GOOD target for inbreeding already found on the damside of Doneraile Court's number one son Ruler's Court.
Also, Doneraile Court's 2nd dam Close Control combines Hyperion and Blenheim in the 4th generation and 5x5 inbreeding to Teddy and a cross of Mumtaz Mahal in the 5th. In a similar fashion Fairy Heights' 3rd dam Electronic combines Hyperion and Teddy in the 3rd generation with 4x4 inbreeding to Blenheim's sire Swynford and a cross of Mumtaz Mahal in the 4th generation.
These two would be crossed 3x4 and according to PQ at least it’s never been tried before.
You might want to take a close look at your mare's legs before going with this mating though, as Doneraile Court may be a little suspect in that area.
-llbean
I don't think any inbreeding is too close if it's already proven to work at a better than usual strike rate.
Unfortunately crossing Fairy King and his full brother Sadlers Wells hasn't produced a single Stakes Winner yet and thus there's no hard evidence that they share the right genes to double up on successfully.
Here's a list of the horses crossing the two full brothers in the PQ database:
Horse Sex Year Sire Dam
DIVINA11 F 2001 KINGS THEATRE HEUSTON STATION
TRAPPETO C 2002 BARATHEA CAMPIGLIA
APPLE ISLE M 2003 SAVOIRE VIVRE STRAWBERRY ISLE
DIAMOND STAR6 F 2002 FINAL APPEARANCE COCCO PIO
AIR LE LECTIER C 2002 EL CONDOR PASA AIR REINE
KILLING ME SOFTLY G 2001 KINGSINGER SLIMS LADY
FRENNI GIRL F 2000 VICTORY NOTE FEMALE LEAD
UNIT ONE G 2003 FINAL APPEARANCE COCCO PIO
ETOLIA4 M 2002 TURTLE ISLAND SCENIC SPIRIT
TARQUE G 2000 REVOQUE TARQUINIA2
KERRYSKICK C 2002 DIKTAT URCHIN
MARJAYOUN C 2001 MEDAALY MERVILLE
FALBRAVCEM F 2004 FALBRAV KEMENCEM
DIAMOND STAR DEN M 2002 FINAL APPEARANCE COCCO PIO
THE POSH F 2001 TANNENKONIG THE BASTIENNE
SARA BARAS F 1999 TURTLE ISLAND STREET KENDRA
XCEL H 1999 REVOQUE MYRAN
ANNEES DOR F 2003 REVOQUE AKAYID
CRASH CALL C 2003 TWO TWENTY TWO CRASH CALL LADY
OBERONS DREAM G 2001 VICTORY NOTE SO FAR AWAY
KENMURE CASTLE C 2000 REVOQUE CASINO ACE
MY FAIR LAGO M 1999 ENCOSTA DE LAGO SUNFLOWER18
BETTER MOMENT G 1997 TURTLE ISLAND SNOOZEANDYOULOSE
RED ROCKS2 C 2003 GALILEO4 PHARMACIST
ORTRUD5 F 2002 SECOND EMPIRE OPERA SONG
PENRITH2 C 2001 SINGSPIEL QUEEN MAT
THOMAS OF BATHWICK C 2003 BECKETT2 BATHWICK BABE
CHARNEY F 2001 CHARNWOOD FOREST LEAGHILLAUN
FATIMAT C 2002 MEDAALY FLAMME4
Some of them are only two years old, but there's still 22 3 Years Old or Older and not a single one is marked down as a Graded or Group Stakes winner (you can double check if there's any Stakes Winners period; but I did a cursory examination and didn't find any and none of the names look familar to me).
Also, this particular mare has already been used a conduit for Northern Dancer and Special inbreeding (see her Kingmambo foal) without success, and there's enough similarity between Fairy King / Sadlers Wells and Nureyev / Sadlers Wells that this may be taken as a bit discouraging.
If Stonewall's offering complimentary seasons to all their stallion, how about Doneraile Court? He brings in a nice close cross of his sire Seattle Slew for Fairy King (see the great Helissio, Falbrav and the additional GIWs Becket and Bramble Rose) and it would also effect 4x5x5 inbreeding to Hail To Reason, an VERY GOOD target for inbreeding already found on the damside of Doneraile Court's number one son Ruler's Court.
Also, Doneraile Court's 2nd dam Close Control combines Hyperion and Blenheim in the 4th generation and 5x5 inbreeding to Teddy and a cross of Mumtaz Mahal in the 5th. In a similar fashion Fairy Heights' 3rd dam Electronic combines Hyperion and Teddy in the 3rd generation with 4x4 inbreeding to Blenheim's sire Swynford and a cross of Mumtaz Mahal in the 4th generation.
These two would be crossed 3x4 and according to PQ at least it’s never been tried before.
You might want to take a close look at your mare's legs before going with this mating though, as Doneraile Court may be a little suspect in that area.
-llbean
Here is ome useful information in regards to crosses
Hi!
Here are some horses
Fairy Queen by Fairy King-Dedicated Lady by Pennine Walk(Persian Bold) 2nd dam by Sallust 3rd dam by Grey Sovereign 4x5 Thong and 4x5 Forli through siblings Special and Thatch won Prix Royallieu-Gr. II(Fr.) Ribblesdale S.
Falbrav by Fairy King-Gift Of The Knight by Slewpy 2nd dam by Lithiot(Ribot) 3rd dam by Kirkland Lake winner of $6,072,768 Premio Presedente Repubblica-Gr. I (Ity) Grand Premio de Milano-Gr. I-(Ity) Eclipse S.-Gr. I(GB), Japan Cup-Gr. I(Jpn), Hong Kong CupGr. I(HK), Queen Elizabeth II S.-Gr. I(GB) Prix d'ISpahan-Gr. I(Fr)
Helissio by Fairy King-Helice by Slewpy 2nd dam by Val de L'Orne 3rd dam by Cutlass won $2,210,000 Prix Lupin-Gr. I(Fr) Grand Prix de Saint Cloud-Gr.I (Fr)-twice, Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe- Gr. I(Fr) Prix Ganay-Gr.I (Fr) sire of Helenus by Hellissio-Worldwide Elsie by Java Gold 3x5 Northern Dancer through Nijinsky II and Fairy King won VRC Victoria Derby-Gr. I(AUS), STC Rosehill Guineas-Gr. I(AUS),VATC Caulfield Guineas-Gr. I (AUS)
Hymn by Fairy King-Handsewn by Sir Ivor 2nd dam Thong 3rd dam Rough Shod II 2x5 Thong through Handsewn and Special won Hawthorne Derby-Gr. III Placed American Derby-Gr. II
King Ivor by Fairy King-Royal Ivor by Sir Ivor 2nd dam by Round Table 3rd dam Matriarch won VATC Sandown Guineas S.-Gr. II (AUS) STC Premeire S.-Gr. II (AUS) 5x5 Mahmoud 4x5 Princequillo 4x5 Turn-To
Oath by Fairy King-Sheer Audacity by Troy 2nd dam by Alcide 4x5 Alycidon 5x5 Hyperion won Epsom Derby-Gr. I(GB)
Revoque by Fairy King-La Bella Fontana by Lafontaine 2nd dam by Prince Tenderfoot won Grand Criterium-Gr. I(Fr), Prix de la Salamandre-Gr. I (Fr)
Encosta De Lago by Fairy King-Shopal Creek by Starway 2nd dam by Mr. Prospector 3rd dam by Sir Ivor won VATC Vichealth Cup-Gr. I (AUS) sire of Alinghi by Encosta De Lago-Ocean Fast by Monde Bleu 2nd dam by Shirley Heights won AAMI Blue Diamond S.-Gr. I(AUS), Vinery Stud 1,000 Guneas-Gr. I(AUS)etc., Delago Broom by Encasto Del Lago-Brompton Cross by El Qahira 4x5 Sir Ivor won VRC Austrian Guineas-Gr. I (AUS)
Turtle Island by Fairy King=Sisiana by High Top 2nd dam by Targowice won Irish 2,000 Guineas-Gr. I(Ire) Heinz 57 Phoenix S.-Gr. I (GB)
Pharaoh's Delight by Fairy King-Ridge The Times by Riva Ridge 2nd dam by Olden Times won Phoenix Park S.-Gr. I(Ire)
Just James by Spectrum-Fairy Flight by Fairy King 2nd dam by Red Alert(Red God) 4x4 Red God won Challenge S.-Gr. II (GB)
Bloodlines that should do well with your mare include Slewpy, Sir Ivor, Ribot, Prince tenderfoot, Princequillo and so on
Horses I would consider breeding
1. Omega Code by Elusive Quality-Tin Oaks by Deputy Minister
Line Breeding Northern Dancer 3x5x5, Vienna 4x6 $7,500 Stud Fee
Elusive Quality contains the bloodlines of Sir Ivor
2. Stephen Got Even by A.P. Indy-Immerse by Cox's Ridge 2nd dam by Blushing Groom line breeding Nasrullah 6x6x6x6
3. Sky Mesa by Pulpit-Caress by Storm Cat
4. Offlee Wild by Wild Again-Alvear by Seattle Slew winner of Suburban H.-Gr. I Massachussetts H., etc.
5. Dixie Union by Dixieland Band-She's Tops by Capote line breeding Northern Dancer 3x4
6. Montbrook by Buckaroo-Secret Papers by Jet Diplomacy linebreeding Bloodroot 6x7x8 through Never Bend, Fairy Bridge and No Robbery
7. Swain by Nashwan-Love Smitten by Key To The Mint
8. Stormy Atlantic by Storm Cat-Hail Atlantis by Seattle Slew
9. Stravinsky by Nureyev-Fire The Groom by Blushing Groom line breeding Special 3x4
10. Cape Town by Seeking The Gold-Seaside Attraction by Seattle Slew
11. Matty G. by Capote-Star Gem by Pia Star
12. Rossini by Miswaki-Touch of Greatness by Hero's Honor
13. Pleasantly Perfect by Pleasant Colony-Regal State by Affirmed
14. Slew City Slew by Seattle Slew-Weber City Miss by Berkely Prince
15. Albert The Great by Go For Gin-Bright Feather by Fappiano
16. Mutakaddim by Seeking The Gold-Oscillate by Seattle Slew
Keith[/b]
Here are some horses
Fairy Queen by Fairy King-Dedicated Lady by Pennine Walk(Persian Bold) 2nd dam by Sallust 3rd dam by Grey Sovereign 4x5 Thong and 4x5 Forli through siblings Special and Thatch won Prix Royallieu-Gr. II(Fr.) Ribblesdale S.
Falbrav by Fairy King-Gift Of The Knight by Slewpy 2nd dam by Lithiot(Ribot) 3rd dam by Kirkland Lake winner of $6,072,768 Premio Presedente Repubblica-Gr. I (Ity) Grand Premio de Milano-Gr. I-(Ity) Eclipse S.-Gr. I(GB), Japan Cup-Gr. I(Jpn), Hong Kong CupGr. I(HK), Queen Elizabeth II S.-Gr. I(GB) Prix d'ISpahan-Gr. I(Fr)
Helissio by Fairy King-Helice by Slewpy 2nd dam by Val de L'Orne 3rd dam by Cutlass won $2,210,000 Prix Lupin-Gr. I(Fr) Grand Prix de Saint Cloud-Gr.I (Fr)-twice, Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe- Gr. I(Fr) Prix Ganay-Gr.I (Fr) sire of Helenus by Hellissio-Worldwide Elsie by Java Gold 3x5 Northern Dancer through Nijinsky II and Fairy King won VRC Victoria Derby-Gr. I(AUS), STC Rosehill Guineas-Gr. I(AUS),VATC Caulfield Guineas-Gr. I (AUS)
Hymn by Fairy King-Handsewn by Sir Ivor 2nd dam Thong 3rd dam Rough Shod II 2x5 Thong through Handsewn and Special won Hawthorne Derby-Gr. III Placed American Derby-Gr. II
King Ivor by Fairy King-Royal Ivor by Sir Ivor 2nd dam by Round Table 3rd dam Matriarch won VATC Sandown Guineas S.-Gr. II (AUS) STC Premeire S.-Gr. II (AUS) 5x5 Mahmoud 4x5 Princequillo 4x5 Turn-To
Oath by Fairy King-Sheer Audacity by Troy 2nd dam by Alcide 4x5 Alycidon 5x5 Hyperion won Epsom Derby-Gr. I(GB)
Revoque by Fairy King-La Bella Fontana by Lafontaine 2nd dam by Prince Tenderfoot won Grand Criterium-Gr. I(Fr), Prix de la Salamandre-Gr. I (Fr)
Encosta De Lago by Fairy King-Shopal Creek by Starway 2nd dam by Mr. Prospector 3rd dam by Sir Ivor won VATC Vichealth Cup-Gr. I (AUS) sire of Alinghi by Encosta De Lago-Ocean Fast by Monde Bleu 2nd dam by Shirley Heights won AAMI Blue Diamond S.-Gr. I(AUS), Vinery Stud 1,000 Guneas-Gr. I(AUS)etc., Delago Broom by Encasto Del Lago-Brompton Cross by El Qahira 4x5 Sir Ivor won VRC Austrian Guineas-Gr. I (AUS)
Turtle Island by Fairy King=Sisiana by High Top 2nd dam by Targowice won Irish 2,000 Guineas-Gr. I(Ire) Heinz 57 Phoenix S.-Gr. I (GB)
Pharaoh's Delight by Fairy King-Ridge The Times by Riva Ridge 2nd dam by Olden Times won Phoenix Park S.-Gr. I(Ire)
Just James by Spectrum-Fairy Flight by Fairy King 2nd dam by Red Alert(Red God) 4x4 Red God won Challenge S.-Gr. II (GB)
Bloodlines that should do well with your mare include Slewpy, Sir Ivor, Ribot, Prince tenderfoot, Princequillo and so on
Horses I would consider breeding
1. Omega Code by Elusive Quality-Tin Oaks by Deputy Minister
Line Breeding Northern Dancer 3x5x5, Vienna 4x6 $7,500 Stud Fee
Elusive Quality contains the bloodlines of Sir Ivor
2. Stephen Got Even by A.P. Indy-Immerse by Cox's Ridge 2nd dam by Blushing Groom line breeding Nasrullah 6x6x6x6
3. Sky Mesa by Pulpit-Caress by Storm Cat
4. Offlee Wild by Wild Again-Alvear by Seattle Slew winner of Suburban H.-Gr. I Massachussetts H., etc.
5. Dixie Union by Dixieland Band-She's Tops by Capote line breeding Northern Dancer 3x4
6. Montbrook by Buckaroo-Secret Papers by Jet Diplomacy linebreeding Bloodroot 6x7x8 through Never Bend, Fairy Bridge and No Robbery
7. Swain by Nashwan-Love Smitten by Key To The Mint
8. Stormy Atlantic by Storm Cat-Hail Atlantis by Seattle Slew
9. Stravinsky by Nureyev-Fire The Groom by Blushing Groom line breeding Special 3x4
10. Cape Town by Seeking The Gold-Seaside Attraction by Seattle Slew
11. Matty G. by Capote-Star Gem by Pia Star
12. Rossini by Miswaki-Touch of Greatness by Hero's Honor
13. Pleasantly Perfect by Pleasant Colony-Regal State by Affirmed
14. Slew City Slew by Seattle Slew-Weber City Miss by Berkely Prince
15. Albert The Great by Go For Gin-Bright Feather by Fappiano
16. Mutakaddim by Seeking The Gold-Oscillate by Seattle Slew
Keith[/b]
-
harperstown
- Suckling
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:59 am
- Location: ireland
if you really like the dynaformer , but not the $100.000 you could always try publisher, stands for a fraction of the price, good strong sort covering mostly N.H mares ,even with increased travel you would still save a small fortune and probably get most of the genes you want,
dont blame the horse . he wont know how much you paid for him.
I am in no way an expert at this stuff like you guys, I'm just offering an insight into Rossini above. I have been around many of his stock here in Ireland and bought quite a few to pinhook. He got a few that were very light in bone, but almost all were very correct. He was bred to some frightfully bad mares over here and still managed to come up with decent winners, if that helps any. I just think if your mare is light of bone, she might need a horse that has more substance and is reliable in throwing it.
terri
terri
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louis finochio
- Darley line
- Posts: 9181
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:21 am
- Location: Alhambra-Calif.
- Contact:
Your mare Fairly heights has to many crosses of (Phalaris) Thats why the Dynaformer offspring rang the bell, as D was an outcross mating.
Successful Appeal is an outcross mating for your mare from the same (Fair Play) sire line as Tiz Now.
Tiz Now has not yet become the successful stallion that Successful Appeal has become.
If I owned your Fairly Heights mare I would breed her to SA.
Successful Appeal is an outcross mating for your mare from the same (Fair Play) sire line as Tiz Now.
Tiz Now has not yet become the successful stallion that Successful Appeal has become.
If I owned your Fairly Heights mare I would breed her to SA.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
For breed to race, what about Indian Charlie? You can get the In Excess nick mentioned without the van trip.
Smart Strike?
If you are willing to wait until the deal is done, there is always Rock Hard Ten. Like Dynaformer, he's Roberto line and I'm sure he'll give you size.
Buddha and Orientate are on the bubble but they have been selling like hotcakes.
Smart Strike?
If you are willing to wait until the deal is done, there is always Rock Hard Ten. Like Dynaformer, he's Roberto line and I'm sure he'll give you size.
Buddha and Orientate are on the bubble but they have been selling like hotcakes.
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Elusive City
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:57 pm
teb wrote:I am in no way an expert at this stuff like you guys, I'm just offering an insight into Rossini above. I have been around many of his stock here in Ireland and bought quite a few to pinhook. He got a few that were very light in bone, but almost all were very correct. He was bred to some frightfully bad mares over here and still managed to come up with decent winners, if that helps any. I just think if your mare is light of bone, she might need a horse that has more substance and is reliable in throwing it.
terri
wow I love Rossini. we bred him to our mare last year and we are excited
we are considering a breed back.
why would old owners allowing him to breed to anything that moves.
Thats bad but since they had a low stud fee I guess thats one way to make some money. as you said there are some good rossini's out there
and hopefully come April there will be one more.
Next years Rossini will be good as Darley has a good stallion manager.
I would consider Proud Citizen
Have you thought about breeding to Proud Citizen He is by Gone West-Drums of Freedom by Green Forest. He ran second in the Kentucky Derby. Crossing with Proud Citizen would give you a 4x5 cross of Natalma through siblings Arctic Dancer and Northern Dancer. Arctic Dancer was the dam of Canadian Horse of The Year La Prevoyante. Gone West has been a successful sire of sires when you consider Elusive Quality, Grand Slam, and Mr. Greeley. I would also consider Johar another son of Gone West.
Keith
Keith