I have recently acquired a mare named Seattle Kat. She is currently in California being bred to Avanzado for 07. She is a stakes producing mare by Seattle Song. Her two SWs are by Miswaki and Indian Charlie. I am making plans for next year already and have no idea where to begin. She had her two year old by Five Star Day sell for 140k in Sep05 at Keeneland. My main interests were:
1. Bwana Charlie
2. Sweetsouthernsaint
3. Omega Code
4. Deputy Commander
5. Ten Most Wanted
6. Concerto
7. Ecton Park
8. Cuvee
9. During
10. Victory Gallop
Strictly on a pedigree opinion, who looks the best? If none above, please tell the stallion you like. As far as looks, she has good confirmation, medium build, about 16 hands tall. Just an all aroung good looking mare. I was thinking Bwana Charlie since she has produced a SW by his sire, but commercial side comes in question. Omega Code because she mostly stamina influence and could use a shot of speed. Plus bringing in Bold ruler in his 4th dam. Sweetsouthernsaint as a sentimental favorite, but maybe this cross would produce way too much stamina and not enough speed. Deputy Commander for his sales, plus she is an older mare and am looking to get a filly and I am willing to bet money that he will be a good broodmare sire. Plus this cross would bring in more La Troienne. Conerto because he is a solid stallion that has great numbers, plus he should be a good broodmare sire also. This cross would also bring the In Reality/Seattle Slew nick. But his heighth is my main concern seeing how she is not overly large. Ecton Park because I think he is one of the up and coming stallions and this cross would bring the Mr Prospector/Seattle Slew nick. Cuvee because he would bring a good shot of speed, and again the Mr P/SS cross. During because that would bring the speed needed and Bold Ruler through his BM sire. Pluse Cherokee Run should cross well with SS mares. Victory Gallop is on my list because he has produced 3 SWs by SS line mares. Plus the way his fillies run, he should be a great broodmare sire. Thats just a theory of mine that if a stallions fillies perform better than his colts, he will make a better broodmare sire than sire of sires. I know that Storm Cat has done well with Slew mares, I am looking at Grand Reward and Van Nistelrooy on that end. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated
Oh where to begin?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
I know this wasn't on your list and may not be in your budget parameters but if I had a dual stakes producing mare who just had one sell for 6 figures at a sale, I'd try to find a way to go back to Indian Charlie.
Otherwise I think that you are underbreeding her.
The other option might be to stay in California and go to In Excess. With her record, they may be a little flexible on the stud fee and you're saving shipping charges and higher boarding rates. That might be worth $4-5000 right there that can be applied to a stud fee.
Good luck!
Otherwise I think that you are underbreeding her.
The other option might be to stay in California and go to In Excess. With her record, they may be a little flexible on the stud fee and you're saving shipping charges and higher boarding rates. That might be worth $4-5000 right there that can be applied to a stud fee.
Good luck!
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Derby2004
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Also Seeking The Gold seems to have done very well with Slew mares. So Quest came to mind. But will he be commercial? Guess we wont know til they hit the sells. I was really trying to stay with a stallion in the Mr P line. E Dubai was also another thought because he is a son of Mr P that could go 6 furlongs or over a mile. And his broodmare sire Lord At War and Slew when crossed produced PA leading sire Patton. As you can see, the choices are wide, just seeing what the people on the board thought since ya'll have helped so much in the past
Stallions to consider
Stallions to consider
Seattle Song likes Lyphard bloodlines
Cappuchino
Cee's Tizzy
City Zip
Honour and Glory
In Excess
Jade Hunter
Put It Back
Rossini
Keith
Seattle Song likes Lyphard bloodlines
Cappuchino
Cee's Tizzy
City Zip
Honour and Glory
In Excess
Jade Hunter
Put It Back
Rossini
Keith
Re: Oh where to begin?
hi Derby2004
I suggest...definitely inject some genuine speed into Seattle Kat (but be careful not to jeopardize the classic possibilities)...and also consider a Storm Cat connection, but not necessarily a direct son.
Omega Code was a rocket...but clearly hit a wall at 6 furlongs. Regardless...one of the 2 best foals I've seen thus far in 2006 is an Omega Code...SPECTACULAR. With Omega Code though, I recommend...be aware of the fact the he has an extemely straight hindleg (some might call it post legged) but he is a VERY nice horse that has received big time support. He was a brilliant fast colt...with a VERY good front end.
Derby2004...a young stallion in Florida that was not on your list but I am confident will be a BIG success...and prove to be quite special, is Indian Ocean (by Stormy Atlantic). He had brilliant speed (winning at 6 1/2F at Hollywood Park in 1:14 and change...and is also a G3 winner (Affirmed H) on the dirt at a mile and a sixteenth defeating the likes of TOP-class Surf Cat, and G1-winner Buzzards Bay (approx 4 weeks after BB won the G1-Santa Anita Derby) by 7 lengths. Indian Ocean is a VERY handsome son of a gun, loaded with quality...he is beautifully balanced and proportioned...is extremely correct both upfront and behind...looks to be approx 16-1 1/2+-...and stands at a farm that I expect will give him a huge shot...Bridlewood. I describe Indian Ocean as special.
That same Bridlewood Farm started the career of and stood Indian Ocean's sire (Stormy Atlantic) prior to his move to Kentucky (Hill n Dale Farm). What I find (and you might find) interesting (as it relates to your mare) is that from Stormy Atlantic's first crop he sired a $1.9 mil 2-yo in training filly from a Seattle Slew daughter. That filly (purchased by Thoroughbred Corp) was the result of a $3,500 stud fee...WOW. Not only was it a great sales accomplishment but that high-dollar filly also went on to become a multiple graded stakes winner. I suggest why not consider SA's son Indian Ocean (for very little money) for your Seattle Slew-line mare...what a PROVEN cross.
I suggest that Indian Ocean could inject some serious speed...the potential for a classic-type...brings Storm Cat (a proven and HIGHLY successful cross with Slew-line daughters)...plus his dam's sire is Halo...2nd dam is by Gone West...and his 3rd dam is a Northern Dancer full sis to Storm Bird...all this for very little money. Indian Ocean might be worth a close look and your serious consideration...and he too has an exceptional front end.
Re: Deputy Commander, who you seem to like, from my perspective he is an okay kind-of-sire. I would watch him closely and expect a lot from him this year...because arguably his best crop to date are 2-yos of 2006. This is the crop that is from the book that arguably DC attracted as a result of Ten Most Wanted's accomplishments. TMW is another horse that was on your list of possibilities for 2007...but if injecting some speed into your mare is a priority, I suggest that you should probably look elsewhere.
I expect that a couple of years down the road you very well might see both Omega Code and Indian Ocean standing in Kentucky. I suggest it might be wise to consider both of these guys now...I sense that their stock might be well on the rise sooner rather than later.
Whatever your decision, I suggest breed your now 20-year-old mare to a young good-looking stallion that offers good size...more than enough bone...exceptional conformation...and is being well supported.
Some of the other stallions you mentioned have something to offer certainly, but I sense that both Omega Code and Indian Ocean could deliver you a lot of bang for your buck.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Derby2004 wrote: I have recently acquired a mare named Seattle Kat. She is currently in California being bred to Avanzado for 07. She is a stakes producing mare by Seattle Song. Her two SWs are by Miswaki and Indian Charlie. I am making plans for next year already and have no idea where to begin.
I suggest...definitely inject some genuine speed into Seattle Kat (but be careful not to jeopardize the classic possibilities)...and also consider a Storm Cat connection, but not necessarily a direct son.
Derby2004 wrote:Omega Code because she......could use a shot of speed. Plus bringing in Bold ruler in his 4th dam.
Omega Code was a rocket...but clearly hit a wall at 6 furlongs. Regardless...one of the 2 best foals I've seen thus far in 2006 is an Omega Code...SPECTACULAR. With Omega Code though, I recommend...be aware of the fact the he has an extemely straight hindleg (some might call it post legged) but he is a VERY nice horse that has received big time support. He was a brilliant fast colt...with a VERY good front end.
Derby2004 wrote:I know that Storm Cat has done well with Slew mares, I am looking at Grand Reward and Van Nistelrooy on that end. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated
Derby2004...a young stallion in Florida that was not on your list but I am confident will be a BIG success...and prove to be quite special, is Indian Ocean (by Stormy Atlantic). He had brilliant speed (winning at 6 1/2F at Hollywood Park in 1:14 and change...and is also a G3 winner (Affirmed H) on the dirt at a mile and a sixteenth defeating the likes of TOP-class Surf Cat, and G1-winner Buzzards Bay (approx 4 weeks after BB won the G1-Santa Anita Derby) by 7 lengths. Indian Ocean is a VERY handsome son of a gun, loaded with quality...he is beautifully balanced and proportioned...is extremely correct both upfront and behind...looks to be approx 16-1 1/2+-...and stands at a farm that I expect will give him a huge shot...Bridlewood. I describe Indian Ocean as special.
That same Bridlewood Farm started the career of and stood Indian Ocean's sire (Stormy Atlantic) prior to his move to Kentucky (Hill n Dale Farm). What I find (and you might find) interesting (as it relates to your mare) is that from Stormy Atlantic's first crop he sired a $1.9 mil 2-yo in training filly from a Seattle Slew daughter. That filly (purchased by Thoroughbred Corp) was the result of a $3,500 stud fee...WOW. Not only was it a great sales accomplishment but that high-dollar filly also went on to become a multiple graded stakes winner. I suggest why not consider SA's son Indian Ocean (for very little money) for your Seattle Slew-line mare...what a PROVEN cross.
I suggest that Indian Ocean could inject some serious speed...the potential for a classic-type...brings Storm Cat (a proven and HIGHLY successful cross with Slew-line daughters)...plus his dam's sire is Halo...2nd dam is by Gone West...and his 3rd dam is a Northern Dancer full sis to Storm Bird...all this for very little money. Indian Ocean might be worth a close look and your serious consideration...and he too has an exceptional front end.
Re: Deputy Commander, who you seem to like, from my perspective he is an okay kind-of-sire. I would watch him closely and expect a lot from him this year...because arguably his best crop to date are 2-yos of 2006. This is the crop that is from the book that arguably DC attracted as a result of Ten Most Wanted's accomplishments. TMW is another horse that was on your list of possibilities for 2007...but if injecting some speed into your mare is a priority, I suggest that you should probably look elsewhere.
I expect that a couple of years down the road you very well might see both Omega Code and Indian Ocean standing in Kentucky. I suggest it might be wise to consider both of these guys now...I sense that their stock might be well on the rise sooner rather than later.
Whatever your decision, I suggest breed your now 20-year-old mare to a young good-looking stallion that offers good size...more than enough bone...exceptional conformation...and is being well supported.
Some of the other stallions you mentioned have something to offer certainly, but I sense that both Omega Code and Indian Ocean could deliver you a lot of bang for your buck.
Best to you.
Respectfully
hi Derby2004
I expect that your mare probably carries enough stamina that she could handle an injection of afterburners...but I am suggesting that Omega Code's hind leg is very straight...and it might be wise for you to consider that in your evaluation process...particulary if you have dreams of a prospective foal from your mare going 10 furlongs.
I do suggest that Omega Code could benefit (as a sire) from mares that offer some staying power (as in the case of yours)...but if 10 furlongs is a goal that you'd like to accomplish, I sense that Indian Ocean could be a better candidate to deliver that for you. I believe he'll not only get runners with lots of speed...but I also expect he'll be more dependable than Omega Code when it comes to getting two-turn horses and classic-type threats.
For starters...I believe that Indian Ocean was cut out to be a TOP class racehorse, both short and long. Clearly he defeated (going two turns) what are turning out to be arguably some of the best of his generation. As recently as yesterday, Surf Cat (who Indian Ocean defeated when he won the 1 1/16 mile Affirmed H-G3 on the dirt at Hollywood Park) won the Mervyn LeRoy H-G2 (also at Hollywood Park) in extremely impressive fashion (carrying highweight and winning in a time just 3/5 off the Track Record)...he's arguably one of the early favorites to win the BC Classic this fall. Furthermore Indian Ocean also won over G1-Santa Anita Derby winner Buzzards Bay, defeating him by 7 lengths (in their only meeting, a 1 1/16 mile Grade 3 just after Buzzards Bay's G1-SA Derby win over Giacomo and Wilko). Had Indian Ocean not been retired to stud as a result of an injury...I expect he would have continued to be competing and winning at the elite level today.
As for breeding possibilities...I sense that IO could be a match made in heaven for your Slew-line mare.
Understanding that your mare is a 1986 model...I suggest that it might be wise to select a young stallion that is not only an exceptional breeding horse (both libido and fertility-wise), but also a no nonsense (and most often one jump) breeder.
I am confident that both Omega Code and Indian Ocean will satisfy your needs in that category...
...but I expect that Indian Ocean is a young horse that offers more possibilities for your mare than Omega Code.
I do like Omega Code VERY much, but I suggest you might need to be a little more cautious in the mare selection process for him...as for Indian Ocean, I could see him working with just about any type of mare. He is (to my way of thinking) VERY VERY special.
Furthermore...I suggest don't go overboard on a stud fee for your mare in 2007. I say why not go for a young stallion that offers everything you believe your mare needs to accomplish what you are hoping and dreaming for (maybe that 10 furlong elite runner). A stallion that's standing at a farm that will work with you not only to get your then 21-year-old mare into the shed when necessary, but also a farm that has a proven track record for success (from the breeder's standpoint) in their stallion division.
Omega Code at Hartley DeRenzo and Indian Ocean at Bridlewood seem to be 2 excellent possibilities.
I am confident that whatever your final decision, it will be well thought out...and I wish you success with Seattle Kat.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Derby2004 wrote:FOS, I thought seeing Omega Code on that list might get your opinion. As always, your insight is well appreciated. I had not even looked at Indian Ocean for her. Are you suggesting Omega Code might be too much of a sprinter for the resulting foal to go 10 furlongs?
I expect that your mare probably carries enough stamina that she could handle an injection of afterburners...but I am suggesting that Omega Code's hind leg is very straight...and it might be wise for you to consider that in your evaluation process...particulary if you have dreams of a prospective foal from your mare going 10 furlongs.
I do suggest that Omega Code could benefit (as a sire) from mares that offer some staying power (as in the case of yours)...but if 10 furlongs is a goal that you'd like to accomplish, I sense that Indian Ocean could be a better candidate to deliver that for you. I believe he'll not only get runners with lots of speed...but I also expect he'll be more dependable than Omega Code when it comes to getting two-turn horses and classic-type threats.
For starters...I believe that Indian Ocean was cut out to be a TOP class racehorse, both short and long. Clearly he defeated (going two turns) what are turning out to be arguably some of the best of his generation. As recently as yesterday, Surf Cat (who Indian Ocean defeated when he won the 1 1/16 mile Affirmed H-G3 on the dirt at Hollywood Park) won the Mervyn LeRoy H-G2 (also at Hollywood Park) in extremely impressive fashion (carrying highweight and winning in a time just 3/5 off the Track Record)...he's arguably one of the early favorites to win the BC Classic this fall. Furthermore Indian Ocean also won over G1-Santa Anita Derby winner Buzzards Bay, defeating him by 7 lengths (in their only meeting, a 1 1/16 mile Grade 3 just after Buzzards Bay's G1-SA Derby win over Giacomo and Wilko). Had Indian Ocean not been retired to stud as a result of an injury...I expect he would have continued to be competing and winning at the elite level today.
As for breeding possibilities...I sense that IO could be a match made in heaven for your Slew-line mare.
Understanding that your mare is a 1986 model...I suggest that it might be wise to select a young stallion that is not only an exceptional breeding horse (both libido and fertility-wise), but also a no nonsense (and most often one jump) breeder.
I am confident that both Omega Code and Indian Ocean will satisfy your needs in that category...
...but I expect that Indian Ocean is a young horse that offers more possibilities for your mare than Omega Code.
I do like Omega Code VERY much, but I suggest you might need to be a little more cautious in the mare selection process for him...as for Indian Ocean, I could see him working with just about any type of mare. He is (to my way of thinking) VERY VERY special.
Furthermore...I suggest don't go overboard on a stud fee for your mare in 2007. I say why not go for a young stallion that offers everything you believe your mare needs to accomplish what you are hoping and dreaming for (maybe that 10 furlong elite runner). A stallion that's standing at a farm that will work with you not only to get your then 21-year-old mare into the shed when necessary, but also a farm that has a proven track record for success (from the breeder's standpoint) in their stallion division.
Omega Code at Hartley DeRenzo and Indian Ocean at Bridlewood seem to be 2 excellent possibilities.
I am confident that whatever your final decision, it will be well thought out...and I wish you success with Seattle Kat.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Cuvee
I think you should take a chance with Cuvee I really think he is going to hit it big , he had I think 140 mares bred to him last year well over 120 this year , He definetly has the speed to put in your ped , and foals are looking great this year, I guess see how they sell in the fall, I think he is worth taking a chance on see ya.
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Derby2004
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FOS, I see your point between Indian Ocean and Omega Code. I have always liked Indian Ocean also. He is a gorgeous animal and the picture of what a stallion should look like. Cuvee has always been on my top list for her also. And if Medallist didnt have such confirmation flaws, he would be too. I always liked Midas Eyes also. Cuvee could get a mile and change and I think he will tend to through 7-9 furlong foals. But on Kat who is all stamina that should put a little more distance. Also I had Wando on that list. I just loved the way he ran with confidence and authority. His sire Langfuhr does tend to throw a lot of speed. I do know the baby she has in 07 by Avanzado will be a speed ball. He was an impressive race horse, but Luhuk being his sire could hurt him any where other than California. Another serious stallion on my list was Chapel Royal. But he is nothing but speed. Montbrook on top of Cutlass spells sprinter. He was able to place at over a mile though. But Montbrook hasnt proven a sire of sires yet. Has anyone seen Cuvee in person? Can you describe him please?
FOS
If my memory serves me correctly, Secretariat was post legged and it certainly was not a detriment to his ability. I personaly like post legged horses, it denotes speed and with racing today you better go for speed first and hope they go a route. IMHO! You do have some very sound advice and suggestions for Derby2004. I always enjoy your imput.
As you always close,
Respectfully
If my memory serves me correctly, Secretariat was post legged and it certainly was not a detriment to his ability. I personaly like post legged horses, it denotes speed and with racing today you better go for speed first and hope they go a route. IMHO! You do have some very sound advice and suggestions for Derby2004. I always enjoy your imput.
As you always close,
Respectfully
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Derby2004
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I agree Larrygene about breeding for speed first. Omega Code to me has a two turn pedigree. His sire can get a two turn horse, his damsire and her damsire all could get a two turn horse. Maybe Omega Code's career was cut so short that he never got the chance to go two turns. FOS< do you recall if he was ever tried more than 6 or 7 furlongs? With my mare, she might just put enough stamina in the foal that it would be able to go two turns. Might bring out the stamina side of OC's pedigree.
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Derby2004
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I agree Larrygene about breeding for speed first. Omega Code to me has a two turn pedigree. His sire can get a two turn horse, his damsire and her damsire all could get a two turn horse. Maybe Omega Code's career was cut so short that he never got the chance to go two turns. FOS< do you recall if he was ever tried more than 6 or 7 furlongs? With my mare, she might just put enough stamina in the foal that it would be able to go two turns. Might bring out the stamina side of OC's pedigree.
hi Derby2004
Fair enough (regarding his pedigree)...but one look at Omega Code in the flesh and it's clear he is ALL sprinter...his hind leg puts the exclamation point on it (as far as I'm concerned)...very straight gaskin (some might refer to it as post-legged).
As you know I like Omega Code VERY much...he was a brilliant fast colt. He had afterburners...but I still suggest that you select what you believe might be the right physical type to work with him.
He was a sprinter, no mistaking that...and that's not an indictment; again, I like him VERY much...but I suggest look at him in the flesh and be confident he is what you're looking for.
Very possible...plus OC has one heck of a good front end, and an excellent shoulder.
He has been very strongly supported and will definitely have a BIG chance to make it. For what it's worth, I understand he is booked to approx 180 mares this year.
To his credit...one of the two best foals that I've seen this year (thus far) is an Omega Code filly...EXCEPTIONAL. Her dam was very strongly made...good size and good length with plenty of leg under her...plus a very impressive quarters. She also had what might be described as a prototype gaskin. I mention the gaskin because OC is so darn straight there.
Maybe so...might be just the ticket.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Derby2004 wrote:Omega Code to me has a two turn pedigree. His sire can get a two turn horse, his damsire and her damsire all could get a two turn horse.
Fair enough (regarding his pedigree)...but one look at Omega Code in the flesh and it's clear he is ALL sprinter...his hind leg puts the exclamation point on it (as far as I'm concerned)...very straight gaskin (some might refer to it as post-legged).
As you know I like Omega Code VERY much...he was a brilliant fast colt. He had afterburners...but I still suggest that you select what you believe might be the right physical type to work with him.
Derby2004 wrote: Maybe Omega Code's career was cut so short that he never got the chance to go two turns.
He was a sprinter, no mistaking that...and that's not an indictment; again, I like him VERY much...but I suggest look at him in the flesh and be confident he is what you're looking for.
Derby2004 wrote: With my mare, she might just put enough stamina in the foal that it would be able to go two turns.
Very possible...plus OC has one heck of a good front end, and an excellent shoulder.
He has been very strongly supported and will definitely have a BIG chance to make it. For what it's worth, I understand he is booked to approx 180 mares this year.
To his credit...one of the two best foals that I've seen this year (thus far) is an Omega Code filly...EXCEPTIONAL. Her dam was very strongly made...good size and good length with plenty of leg under her...plus a very impressive quarters. She also had what might be described as a prototype gaskin. I mention the gaskin because OC is so darn straight there.
Derby2004 wrote:Might bring out the stamina side of OC's pedigree.
Maybe so...might be just the ticket.
Best to you.
Respectfully