Delaware Township vs Formal Dinner
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hotrod horses
- Weanling
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:35 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
Delaware Township vs Formal Dinner
I am trying to decide between Delaware Twp and Formal Dinner. Both stud fees are equal, both have stakes winners with Damascus line mares (my mare is by Marsayas). I would be breeding to race the baby, but would like to keep the option of selling the foal.
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hotrod horses
- Weanling
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:35 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
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da hossman
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:08 am
- Location: KY
When you say "fees are equal" are you referring to the advertised fees or have you spoken with the standing farms and asked for their best price? It is worth the time to call.
Without considering the mare (which of course would make all the difference to me) I would go with Delaware Township - younger, throws good individuals, has two current stakes placed 3 yo's (Kinsey, Judge Sonya), etc.
Another reason to go with DT would be PA breeders awards if you foal there - 30% for PA sired & bred! No help from FL for any stallion standing there....
Without considering the mare (which of course would make all the difference to me) I would go with Delaware Township - younger, throws good individuals, has two current stakes placed 3 yo's (Kinsey, Judge Sonya), etc.
Another reason to go with DT would be PA breeders awards if you foal there - 30% for PA sired & bred! No help from FL for any stallion standing there....
A difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and missionaries.
Will Rogers
Will Rogers
Not a popular comment but I would not breed this mare at all.
I will keep the reasons private as to not disrespect her on a public forum.
But, you are better off buying something than trying to breed this mare (despite the Cozzene connection).
She has had a shot on the track and in the breeding shed with 6 kids ......
As you know, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to have a horse in training for a year.
But, it's your money and your call. However, I hope you are, personally, prepared to race the horse and find it a good home afterwards because it won't sell.
The market has been flooded with these types of horses.......
Sorry. Not what you want to hear. But, the stud fee is just the beginning and the cheapest part of breeding a horse.
My apologies.
However, if, she is one of those, "I love her to death" horses (I understand as I have been there- your heart wins out over your mind) where you really want to have one of her kids than I would suggest Lite The Fuse for her. She needs a proven stallion that has shown to upgraded his mares. The linebreeding is fine. The nick is bad but I don't believe in nicks and nicks don't show hard knocking horses that can pay their way only stakes winners.....He also has the highest APEX number out of the 3 stallions....for what that's worth.
Good luck!!
I will keep the reasons private as to not disrespect her on a public forum.
But, you are better off buying something than trying to breed this mare (despite the Cozzene connection).
She has had a shot on the track and in the breeding shed with 6 kids ......
As you know, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to have a horse in training for a year.
But, it's your money and your call. However, I hope you are, personally, prepared to race the horse and find it a good home afterwards because it won't sell.
The market has been flooded with these types of horses.......
Sorry. Not what you want to hear. But, the stud fee is just the beginning and the cheapest part of breeding a horse.
My apologies.
However, if, she is one of those, "I love her to death" horses (I understand as I have been there- your heart wins out over your mind) where you really want to have one of her kids than I would suggest Lite The Fuse for her. She needs a proven stallion that has shown to upgraded his mares. The linebreeding is fine. The nick is bad but I don't believe in nicks and nicks don't show hard knocking horses that can pay their way only stakes winners.....He also has the highest APEX number out of the 3 stallions....for what that's worth.
Good luck!!
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hotrod horses
- Weanling
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:35 pm
- Location: Pennsylvania
hotrod horses wrote:pokeyman, no apoligies needed. I actually was thinking of pensioning her.
Well, I still would like to apologize.
I was just trying to be honest. I wish people had been honest with me when I first started. I have seen so many people lose their shirts. So, I made a promise that I would always be honest.
I thought about not responding at all but than I felt bad for NOT responding. *sigh*
Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide!
Just my personal opinion & based solely on stallions, which is no way to pick a breeding:
Between Delaware Township & Formal Dinner - Delaware Township.
Between Delaware Township & Lite The Fuse - Lite The Fuse.
Between Lite The Fuse & pensioning - follow your gut.
Best of luck, whatever you decide. Breeding's tough & there are no guarantees, either way.
Between Delaware Township & Formal Dinner - Delaware Township.
Between Delaware Township & Lite The Fuse - Lite The Fuse.
Between Lite The Fuse & pensioning - follow your gut.
Best of luck, whatever you decide. Breeding's tough & there are no guarantees, either way.
.As you know, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to have a horse in training for a year
I always hate when people write crap like this. Who the hell puts a horse in "training" for over a year that isn't doing anything. It is either running well and counteracting bills or can't run and you're not paying the $85 plus day rate to make this figure realistic. If the horse has talent and is in training ALL year, than $30k+ is realistic. If it doesn't show much and goes to a B track and STILL stays in training all year the costs are almost half. Most people on this site are not sending their horses to $30k+ trainers, expecially those who ask what stallion to breed to. No offense to the Original Poster, BTW I like Delaware Township.
too weird to live...too rare to die
www.ascotstudfarm.com
www.ascotstudfarm.com
AscotStud wrote:.As you know, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to have a horse in training for a year
I always hate when people write crap like this. Who the hell puts a horse in "training" for over a year that isn't doing anything. It is either running well and counteracting bills or can't run and you're not paying the $85 plus day rate to make this figure realistic. If the horse has talent and is in training ALL year, than $30k+ is realistic. If it doesn't show much and goes to a B track and STILL stays in training all year the costs are almost half. Most people on this site are not sending their horses to $30k+ trainers, expecially those who ask what stallion to breed to. No offense to the Original Poster, BTW I like Delaware Township.
Ascot.....**raising hand**. Let's see, I sent my babies down to Webb carroll in SC in September from New England. They will have been training for 7 months minus their winter vacation before they even hit my trainer who charges $80 a day at Belmont or $70 a day in NJ. So, add up all the math JUST for training before they even race. Then, since I bred and raised the horses, no..I am not going to give up on them after a few starts. So, I'll race them through their 2 year old year where they probably won't win. I mean..how many 2 years old actually win.
So, that means another year of racing before I give up on them as 3 year olds.
Thus, yes, in my own personal experience it costs us about $30,000 from birth until their 3 year old year to determine if they are useful or not.
Oh, I didn't even factor in the $22,500 in stud fees that were due the year of the birth!!
If you have had a different experience than I am happy for you. Trust me, if I could save money somewhere along the line than I would!!
pokeyman wrote:AscotStud wrote:.As you know, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to have a horse in training for a year
I always hate when people write crap like this. Who the hell puts a horse in "training" for over a year that isn't doing anything. It is either running well and counteracting bills or can't run and you're not paying the $85 plus day rate to make this figure realistic. If the horse has talent and is in training ALL year, than $30k+ is realistic. If it doesn't show much and goes to a B track and STILL stays in training all year the costs are almost half. Most people on this site are not sending their horses to $30k+ trainers, expecially those who ask what stallion to breed to. No offense to the Original Poster, BTW I like Delaware Township.
Ascot.....**raising hand**. Let's see, I sent my babies down to Webb carroll in SC in September from New England. They will have been training for 7 months minus their winter vacation before they even hit my trainer who charges $80 a day at Belmont or $70 a day in NJ. So, add up all the math JUST for training before they even race. Then, since I bred and raised the horses, no..I am not going to give up on them after a few starts. So, I'll race them through their 2 year old year where they probably won't win. I mean..how many 2 years old actually win.
So, that means another year of racing before I give up on them as 3 year olds.
Thus, yes, in my own personal experience it costs us about $30,000 from birth until their 3 year old year to determine if they are useful or not.
Oh, I didn't even factor in the $22,500 in stud fees that were due the year of the birth!!
If you have had a different experience than I am happy for you. Trust me, if I could save money somewhere along the line than I would!!
pokeyman, my experience is pretty much like yours, only it seems to cost more.
A racehorse that pays its own way on the track is a luxury and a delight--but certainly not part of the business model. Just because a horse is "in training" doesn't mean that it's ready to run (and potentially earn money) every three weeks.
FWIW, I'm on the leaky roof circuit and I'd peg the figures closer to this (with no major catastrophes in the mix): $7000 up to yearling: $10-12,000 yearling to 2 year old; $20,000 2 year old year; $25,000 thereafter with no breaks. Certainly not cheap but as Ascot points out, that doesn't take into account offsetting these expenses with purses or simply accepting the inevitable and moving a horse down the road if necessary.
Some of the best training facilities in my state are $50-55 a day. While trainers at the top end tracks charge upwards of $100 a day, $60-65 is more typical.
That's not to question your experience pokeyman or your feeling that this mare is not worth breeding, but my mileage has varied. I simply couldn't afford to do what you do and therefore I don't do it.
Ultimately, of course the decision is the original posters.
Some of the best training facilities in my state are $50-55 a day. While trainers at the top end tracks charge upwards of $100 a day, $60-65 is more typical.
That's not to question your experience pokeyman or your feeling that this mare is not worth breeding, but my mileage has varied. I simply couldn't afford to do what you do and therefore I don't do it.
Ultimately, of course the decision is the original posters.
That's not to question your experience pokeyman or your feeling that this mare is not worth breeding, but my mileage has varied. I simply couldn't afford to do what you do and therefore I don't do it.
Ultimately, of course the decision is the original posters.[/quote]
Thank you, my point exactly, I was in a pissy mood last night. Someone breeding to a $5k stallion isn't doing the same route as those on the higher end, so to start out with a comment like that to me is just annoying. 90 days breaking at $30 a day. 60 days at $50 on a farm then training at $55-70 a day until the horse bucks its shins doen not add up to $30k. If it's gonna be a PA bred it will probably be at Phily, Penn or PI where most are $55-85. Within a couple months you should know what you have if it can't make your money back off to CT at $45-55 a day with good pots. By now if the horses can't pick up a check it's time to stop.
I know people pay WAY too much...good for them for being ripped off, I've seen my fair share of destroyed horses sent to me (by frustrated owners) from BIG barns in the past few months. But there are ways to run successful horses without getting ripped off. If the OP asked what people paid a year for training then great, but if not and not knowing the situation, to me that comment was still off line.
Ultimately, of course the decision is the original posters.[/quote]
Thank you, my point exactly, I was in a pissy mood last night. Someone breeding to a $5k stallion isn't doing the same route as those on the higher end, so to start out with a comment like that to me is just annoying. 90 days breaking at $30 a day. 60 days at $50 on a farm then training at $55-70 a day until the horse bucks its shins doen not add up to $30k. If it's gonna be a PA bred it will probably be at Phily, Penn or PI where most are $55-85. Within a couple months you should know what you have if it can't make your money back off to CT at $45-55 a day with good pots. By now if the horses can't pick up a check it's time to stop.
I know people pay WAY too much...good for them for being ripped off, I've seen my fair share of destroyed horses sent to me (by frustrated owners) from BIG barns in the past few months. But there are ways to run successful horses without getting ripped off. If the OP asked what people paid a year for training then great, but if not and not knowing the situation, to me that comment was still off line.
Thus, yes, in my own personal experience it costs us about $30,000 from birth until their 3 year old year to determine if they are useful or not
Slightly different than
As you know, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to have a horse in training for a year.
How do you know if the OP trains, breaks horses or even gallops? The question was what stallion, not an economics case study on how much some people choose to spend on their horses.