High AEI stallions
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
FOS... You are way to good at this to think 100k for EQ is safer then 85k for GS... Geez do you really think the 15k matters. Safe and breeding to a stallion at 85k or even 100k is kind of a tough choice of a word. It's a total educated crap shoot at that level. If you mean that there is more short term evidence that spending the extra 100k MAY give you a potentially more sucessful foal then I guess I understand. But SAFE is not a good choice of words.
hi freddymo
You wrote "... You are way to good at this to think 100k for EQ is safer then 85k for GS... Geez do you really think the 15k matters. Safe and breeding to a stallion at 85k or even 100k is kind of a tough choice of a word."
Respectfully freddymo...I wrote "...All Things Considered...I suggest that Elusive Quality is a much safer place for me at $100k than Grand Slam at $85k." I used the word "safer" (to indicate less risk)...not the word "safe" (which you referenced) which may indicate no risk.
If the decision is made to put a significant stud fee into a particular mare...and the choices came down to either (one of the two) Elusive Quality or Grand Slam...All Things Considered...I would no doubt (at this time) select Elusive Quality over Grand Slam.
As I previously indicated...I suggest that EQ's accomplishments (and versatility) as a sire far outweigh (in my opinion) those of Grand Slam, All Things Considered (not the least of which is...from my perspective...that "Elusive Quality had far less opportunity than Grand Slam (in both the quality and quantity categories, etc)...but regardless Elusive Quality has outsired Grand Slam").
freddymo...it's not the $15k that makes the difference to me...simply stated I suggest that Elusive Quality is a lot more sire for the money (at least to me) than Grand Slam...and is worth every bit of $100k (and possibly more). Conversely...Grand Slam is extremely difficult for me to consider at $85k.
EQ at $100k vs Grand Slam at $85k...to me that's an easy call...EQ.
freddymo, you wrote "It's a total educated crap shoot at that level." freddymo...I ask...at what level is it not an "educated crap shoot" ?
Best to you...always.
Respectfully
You wrote "... You are way to good at this to think 100k for EQ is safer then 85k for GS... Geez do you really think the 15k matters. Safe and breeding to a stallion at 85k or even 100k is kind of a tough choice of a word."
Respectfully freddymo...I wrote "...All Things Considered...I suggest that Elusive Quality is a much safer place for me at $100k than Grand Slam at $85k." I used the word "safer" (to indicate less risk)...not the word "safe" (which you referenced) which may indicate no risk.
If the decision is made to put a significant stud fee into a particular mare...and the choices came down to either (one of the two) Elusive Quality or Grand Slam...All Things Considered...I would no doubt (at this time) select Elusive Quality over Grand Slam.
As I previously indicated...I suggest that EQ's accomplishments (and versatility) as a sire far outweigh (in my opinion) those of Grand Slam, All Things Considered (not the least of which is...from my perspective...that "Elusive Quality had far less opportunity than Grand Slam (in both the quality and quantity categories, etc)...but regardless Elusive Quality has outsired Grand Slam").
freddymo...it's not the $15k that makes the difference to me...simply stated I suggest that Elusive Quality is a lot more sire for the money (at least to me) than Grand Slam...and is worth every bit of $100k (and possibly more). Conversely...Grand Slam is extremely difficult for me to consider at $85k.
EQ at $100k vs Grand Slam at $85k...to me that's an easy call...EQ.
freddymo, you wrote "It's a total educated crap shoot at that level." freddymo...I ask...at what level is it not an "educated crap shoot" ?
Best to you...always.
Respectfully
FOS your points are fair ,but somewhat spun. Grand Slam and Elusive Quality have both shown abilty to sire outstanding TB's. EQ has had few more stakes winners and of course Smarty Jones(my Favorite horse since Niatross). Cajun Beat is terriffic BC sprint winner and will continue to do well under Frankel. To say that a specific mare is going to have A better foal from either stallion is a very difficult call. I would venture too say impossible to predict. I just think when you get to a certain quality level it seems much more hard to decide.
Spending 2,500 on a stallion or 3,000 is less of a crap shoot because your expectiations are not nearly as high. You know you are fishing
We may be saying the same things just in a different way
Spending 2,500 on a stallion or 3,000 is less of a crap shoot because your expectiations are not nearly as high. You know you are fishing
We may be saying the same things just in a different way
hi freddymo
You wrote "FOS your points are fair ,but somewhat spun."
freddymo...In my book Elusive Quality is without a doubt the stallion I would choose (at this time) if All Things Considered it came down to one of the two (Elusive Quality and Grand Slam). That's an absolute...no spin and not a maybe.
You wrote "To say that a specific mare is going to have A better foal from either stallion is a very difficult call."
I agree...none of us has a crystal ball...we can only make the best decisions (choices etc) that we can All Things Considered (and I'd like to think that one's experience(s)...wisdom...intuition etc etc etc might be of value also).
You wrote "Spending 2,500 on a stallion or 3,000 is less of a crap shoot because your expectiations are not nearly as high. You know you are fishing"
I suggest that when it comes to considering the degree of probability of the occurrence of something (aka expectations)...each of us may have our own concept (based on, at least to some extent, our own degree of knowledge...experience etc) as to what our expectations might be.
That being said...isn't it fair to say that a breeder might be able to increase the possibility of success by being diligent and thorough (aka All Things Considered) when making mating decisions?
I suggest that regardless of the stud fee level (whether $2,500 or $100,000 etc) when considering prospective matings...All Things should be Considered. And if a mare is not worthy (by one's own personal measure) of the time and effort necessary to hopefully select a stallion that may best suit her...why own her? And if the thrill (and/or challenge etc) of it all is so diminished that one becomes somewhat numb (and/or cavalier) re: the whole process...it might be the time to consider leaving the breeding game.
For what it's worth...I've seen too many mares produce very good racehorses by lower stud fee stallions. I suggest that a passionate breeder (of thoroughbred racehorses) will take the matings selection-process seriously (regardless of the stud fee levels) in hopes of producing the best possible result. I suggest that to commit not only the money (whether $2,500 or $100,000 or whatever) but also the time, effort, energy etc to properly maintain an in-foal mare and raise and care for (veterinary..blacksmith etc etc etc) the foal in the best possible fashion...is a serious matter. I'd be surprised if you didn't agree that to give a mare and foal the best opportunities to succeed is no small commitment...regardless of the dollar value of the mare and/or the size of the stud fee.
Getting back to Grand Slam...if he was one of the two stallions I had to choose from...and each seemed to be a perfect fit for my mare...and the stud fees were as advertised (EQ $100k and GS $85k)...I would absolutely...positively...no spin...no maybes...select Elusive Quality over Grand Slam (at this time).
Simply...right now...at $100k I see EQ as very good value...and at $85k I cannot say the same about Grand Slam.
Best to you.
Respectfully
You wrote "FOS your points are fair ,but somewhat spun."
freddymo...In my book Elusive Quality is without a doubt the stallion I would choose (at this time) if All Things Considered it came down to one of the two (Elusive Quality and Grand Slam). That's an absolute...no spin and not a maybe.
You wrote "To say that a specific mare is going to have A better foal from either stallion is a very difficult call."
I agree...none of us has a crystal ball...we can only make the best decisions (choices etc) that we can All Things Considered (and I'd like to think that one's experience(s)...wisdom...intuition etc etc etc might be of value also).
You wrote "Spending 2,500 on a stallion or 3,000 is less of a crap shoot because your expectiations are not nearly as high. You know you are fishing"
I suggest that when it comes to considering the degree of probability of the occurrence of something (aka expectations)...each of us may have our own concept (based on, at least to some extent, our own degree of knowledge...experience etc) as to what our expectations might be.
That being said...isn't it fair to say that a breeder might be able to increase the possibility of success by being diligent and thorough (aka All Things Considered) when making mating decisions?
I suggest that regardless of the stud fee level (whether $2,500 or $100,000 etc) when considering prospective matings...All Things should be Considered. And if a mare is not worthy (by one's own personal measure) of the time and effort necessary to hopefully select a stallion that may best suit her...why own her? And if the thrill (and/or challenge etc) of it all is so diminished that one becomes somewhat numb (and/or cavalier) re: the whole process...it might be the time to consider leaving the breeding game.
For what it's worth...I've seen too many mares produce very good racehorses by lower stud fee stallions. I suggest that a passionate breeder (of thoroughbred racehorses) will take the matings selection-process seriously (regardless of the stud fee levels) in hopes of producing the best possible result. I suggest that to commit not only the money (whether $2,500 or $100,000 or whatever) but also the time, effort, energy etc to properly maintain an in-foal mare and raise and care for (veterinary..blacksmith etc etc etc) the foal in the best possible fashion...is a serious matter. I'd be surprised if you didn't agree that to give a mare and foal the best opportunities to succeed is no small commitment...regardless of the dollar value of the mare and/or the size of the stud fee.
Getting back to Grand Slam...if he was one of the two stallions I had to choose from...and each seemed to be a perfect fit for my mare...and the stud fees were as advertised (EQ $100k and GS $85k)...I would absolutely...positively...no spin...no maybes...select Elusive Quality over Grand Slam (at this time).
Simply...right now...at $100k I see EQ as very good value...and at $85k I cannot say the same about Grand Slam.
Best to you.
Respectfully
FOS I just do not concur the EQ is that much if at all more successful I submit these highly pointed facts: GS ='s Cajun Beat $1,159,100
Cafe Olympus $1,087,639
Grand Hombre $928,360
Limehouse $827,435
Strong Hope $767,460
Fire Slam $686,811
Alke $619,385
S U Grand $402,836
Tiger Motion $387,550
Cafe Floridian $346,107
By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Limehouse $200,000
Lazzeri $64,000
Slam Bammy $51,780
Alfonsina $30,980
Grand Hombre $30,000
Every Trick $28,238
Middleweight $28,000
Silent Bid $27,600
Cool Spell $27,000
Grand Heritage $26,910
By Class Performance Index
Name CPI
Grand Hombre 36.15
Cajun Beat 22.68
Limehouse 20.95
Slam Bammy 7.53
Lazzeri 7.21
Cafe Olympus 6.92
Alfonsina 6.63
Cool Spell 4.43
Grand Heritage 4.28
Long Pond 3.90
VS EQ:Smarty Jones $7,613,155
Gimmeawink $531,090
Elusive Diva $288,070
Chimichurri $269,126
Shandy $259,887
Adopted Daughter $255,850
Great Notion $194,608
Omega Code $183,847
Elusive Thought $179,754
Elusive City $174,555
By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Girl Warrior $90,000
Elusive Diva $66,600
Give Me Sugar $32,560
Volatile Vickie $29,350
New Wind Blowin' $28,470
Pretty Cagey $25,200
Courageous King $21,200
Elusive Jazz $18,780
Best Quality $17,670
Elusive Elegance $16,170
By Class Performance Index
Name CPI
Elusive Diva 9.96
Girl Warrior 7.59
Give Me Sugar 4.68
Shandy 4.23
Volatile Vickie 3.63
Nattitude 2.88
New Wind Blowin' 2.67
Courageous King 2.38
Runnin' On Nitro 2.28
Governor Bennett 2.08
Elusive Quality's Weekly Progeny Recap
3-Year-Olds and Up
Winner/Stakes Performer (Age/Sex) Broodmare Sire Track (fin. pos./dist./date) Stakes Race Equibase Chart
Another Elusive (5yo, H) Carson City OAKLAWN PARK(1st, 6 Furlongs, 4/2) n/a
Chart
LOVE SMARTY but after that the depth is just not in the league of a GRAND SLAM.. Grand Slam has 6 plus 500k earners plus a very nice well balance group of sucessful racers... EQ had my Favorite SJ and a cast of ?
Cafe Olympus $1,087,639
Grand Hombre $928,360
Limehouse $827,435
Strong Hope $767,460
Fire Slam $686,811
Alke $619,385
S U Grand $402,836
Tiger Motion $387,550
Cafe Floridian $346,107
By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Limehouse $200,000
Lazzeri $64,000
Slam Bammy $51,780
Alfonsina $30,980
Grand Hombre $30,000
Every Trick $28,238
Middleweight $28,000
Silent Bid $27,600
Cool Spell $27,000
Grand Heritage $26,910
By Class Performance Index
Name CPI
Grand Hombre 36.15
Cajun Beat 22.68
Limehouse 20.95
Slam Bammy 7.53
Lazzeri 7.21
Cafe Olympus 6.92
Alfonsina 6.63
Cool Spell 4.43
Grand Heritage 4.28
Long Pond 3.90
VS EQ:Smarty Jones $7,613,155
Gimmeawink $531,090
Elusive Diva $288,070
Chimichurri $269,126
Shandy $259,887
Adopted Daughter $255,850
Great Notion $194,608
Omega Code $183,847
Elusive Thought $179,754
Elusive City $174,555
By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Girl Warrior $90,000
Elusive Diva $66,600
Give Me Sugar $32,560
Volatile Vickie $29,350
New Wind Blowin' $28,470
Pretty Cagey $25,200
Courageous King $21,200
Elusive Jazz $18,780
Best Quality $17,670
Elusive Elegance $16,170
By Class Performance Index
Name CPI
Elusive Diva 9.96
Girl Warrior 7.59
Give Me Sugar 4.68
Shandy 4.23
Volatile Vickie 3.63
Nattitude 2.88
New Wind Blowin' 2.67
Courageous King 2.38
Runnin' On Nitro 2.28
Governor Bennett 2.08
Elusive Quality's Weekly Progeny Recap
3-Year-Olds and Up
Winner/Stakes Performer (Age/Sex) Broodmare Sire Track (fin. pos./dist./date) Stakes Race Equibase Chart
Another Elusive (5yo, H) Carson City OAKLAWN PARK(1st, 6 Furlongs, 4/2) n/a
Chart
LOVE SMARTY but after that the depth is just not in the league of a GRAND SLAM.. Grand Slam has 6 plus 500k earners plus a very nice well balance group of sucessful racers... EQ had my Favorite SJ and a cast of ?