It's pretty amazing the parallels these two stallions have. Both started off as under-appreciated stallions in the Bluegrass for 10k I believe.
Both were very fast horses who may have been considered second tier to other members of their crop.
Both are sons of stallions who were under-appreciated by American breeders but who were sired by great sires of sires.
Both started off very hot and were very consistent in results with mediocre to decent mares.
Both impart a lot of speed and versatility into their foals and when bred to the right mares, can get very good two turn horses.
Both have a very similar body frame... muscular, great rear end, good shoulder at a very good angle.
I think we're seeing a real changing of the guard. I think Storm Cat's demise will bring a stud increase for Distorted Humor. He seems to be the natural successor.
Not taking anything away from A.P. Indy, who deserves top notch billing, but I don't see him being a 500k stallion. He's not international or versatile enough.
If we see another 500k stallion after Storm Cat, it seems only logical it's going to be Distorted Humor. But how interesting are the parallels between the two?
Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
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Rokeby Forever
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That is interesting, Maven. Thanks for pointing that out.
Distorted Humor made 23 starts in his career....obviously, a strike against him.
Not that Pulpit will ever stand for $500,000, but I imagine his $80,000 fee will jump by leaps and bounds. He can sire a good miler like Corinthian, a good turfer like Wend, a nice Handicap horse like Purge, a highly regarded three year old like Tapit, early winners like Essence Of Dubai, and a fast two year old that can go on to sire expensive foals like Sky Mesa. Plus, Pulpits have and always will continue to sell really well.
Distorted Humor made 23 starts in his career....obviously, a strike against him.
Not that Pulpit will ever stand for $500,000, but I imagine his $80,000 fee will jump by leaps and bounds. He can sire a good miler like Corinthian, a good turfer like Wend, a nice Handicap horse like Purge, a highly regarded three year old like Tapit, early winners like Essence Of Dubai, and a fast two year old that can go on to sire expensive foals like Sky Mesa. Plus, Pulpits have and always will continue to sell really well.
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
I really like Pulpit and as a whole, his sons are throwing some of the best looking foals in the Bluegrass. He, in my mind, is setting himself up to be a very good sire of sires. They just have prove me right and run to their looks now.
But yes, Pulpit has great versatility as a sire and I wish a few more would have been put on the turf. They really like it.
But yes, Pulpit has great versatility as a sire and I wish a few more would have been put on the turf. They really like it.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
Re: Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
hi Maven
Interesting observations, but I'd like to throw in my two cents because I see Storm Cat and Distorted Humor somewhat differently than you do.
If you'll allow me...
Storm Cat (if I recall correctly) started for an advertised stud fee in the area of $20,000...Distorted Humor for $7,500.
Storm Cat was arguably a head short of winning a 2-yo eclipse. Had he not been nailed at the wire in the G1-BC Juvenile (by eventual 2-yo champion Tasso)...it was arguably likely that Storm Cat would have been named the 2-yo champ. Hardly second tier (at least to my way of thinking).
That said...Storm Cat won 3 races (including the G1-Young America at a mile and a sixteenth) from 6 starts as a 2-yo, and finished 2nd (also as a 2-yo) in the G1-BC Juvenile. His knees were problematic, and he had chips removed from both after completion of his two-year-old campaign. He went on to start twice at age three, winning one (which by the way was NOT a stakes race) and not placing in the other. He added a mere $13k (as a 3-yo) to the $550k+ he bankrolled as a 2-yo, and was kept in training as a four-year-old..although he never started...hmmm. Knees again?
As for Distorted Humor (for comparison's sake) he was unraced as a two-year-old...and was never a G1 winner (as was Storm Cat) although he did finish 3rd in one once, that being at age five. DH was a Listed, G2 and G3 stakes-winner, and won stakes from 6 furlongs to a mile. He also won stakes every year he raced (age three, four and five)...and retired with a record of 8 wins (including 5 stakes wins) from 23 lifetime starts, and raked in over 3/4 of a million dollars in lifetime earnings.
Distorted Humor had brilliant blazing-fast speed. Think about it...he won Keeneland's 7 furlong G2-Commonwealth BC Stakes in 1:20 2/5...and also set a New Track Record for 7 furlongs (at Churchill) in 1:21 (when he won the G2-Churchill Downs H). WOW...he could kick-in the afterburners.
That said...I would submit that Distorted Humor's style and record suggests that he was basically a sprinter. As for Storm Cat, his two impressive graded-stakes performances were both beyond a mile...one being in the 1 1/6 mile G1-Young America and the other the G1-BC Juvenile...hardly sprints.
I might describe Storm Bird and Forty Niner as underperformers before I would describe them as under-appreciated (your description)...as both (Storm Bird and Forty Niner) were both VERY strongly supported when retired to stud.
Storm Cat received impressive support and opportunity from his owner (WT Young) from day one, whereas it might be fair to say that Distorted Humor's quality of support and opportunity was mediocre (your word)...certainly compared to Storm Cat's.
The results speak for themselves.
Distorted Humor (for starters) has a longer (arguably MUCH longer) pastern than Storm Cat does, and he's not as heavy-boned as Storm Cat is. SC is clearly offset too.
Distorted Humor is (to my way of thinking) defining himself as one heck of a big-time sire...Big-Time.
His international appeal has been slim (is that too generous?). Seattle Slew and his sons in general (including AP Indy) never seemed to successfully translate to the turf.
An interesting discussion, but (respectfully) I don't see SC and DH as being quite as similar (except for their success/prowess as racehorse sires) as you have suggested.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Interesting observations, but I'd like to throw in my two cents because I see Storm Cat and Distorted Humor somewhat differently than you do.
If you'll allow me...
Maven wrote:It's pretty amazing the parallels these two stallions (Storm Cat and Distorted Humor) have. Both started off as under-appreciated stallions in the Bluegrass for 10k I believe.
Storm Cat (if I recall correctly) started for an advertised stud fee in the area of $20,000...Distorted Humor for $7,500.
Maven wrote:Both were very fast horses who may have been considered second tier to other members of their crop.
Storm Cat was arguably a head short of winning a 2-yo eclipse. Had he not been nailed at the wire in the G1-BC Juvenile (by eventual 2-yo champion Tasso)...it was arguably likely that Storm Cat would have been named the 2-yo champ. Hardly second tier (at least to my way of thinking).
That said...Storm Cat won 3 races (including the G1-Young America at a mile and a sixteenth) from 6 starts as a 2-yo, and finished 2nd (also as a 2-yo) in the G1-BC Juvenile. His knees were problematic, and he had chips removed from both after completion of his two-year-old campaign. He went on to start twice at age three, winning one (which by the way was NOT a stakes race) and not placing in the other. He added a mere $13k (as a 3-yo) to the $550k+ he bankrolled as a 2-yo, and was kept in training as a four-year-old..although he never started...hmmm. Knees again?
As for Distorted Humor (for comparison's sake) he was unraced as a two-year-old...and was never a G1 winner (as was Storm Cat) although he did finish 3rd in one once, that being at age five. DH was a Listed, G2 and G3 stakes-winner, and won stakes from 6 furlongs to a mile. He also won stakes every year he raced (age three, four and five)...and retired with a record of 8 wins (including 5 stakes wins) from 23 lifetime starts, and raked in over 3/4 of a million dollars in lifetime earnings.
Distorted Humor had brilliant blazing-fast speed. Think about it...he won Keeneland's 7 furlong G2-Commonwealth BC Stakes in 1:20 2/5...and also set a New Track Record for 7 furlongs (at Churchill) in 1:21 (when he won the G2-Churchill Downs H). WOW...he could kick-in the afterburners.
That said...I would submit that Distorted Humor's style and record suggests that he was basically a sprinter. As for Storm Cat, his two impressive graded-stakes performances were both beyond a mile...one being in the 1 1/6 mile G1-Young America and the other the G1-BC Juvenile...hardly sprints.
Maven wrote:Both (Storm Cat and Distorted Humor) are sons of stallions (Storm Bird and Forty Niner) who were under-appreciated by American breeders but who were sired by great sires of sires (Northern Dancer and Mr Prospector).
I might describe Storm Bird and Forty Niner as underperformers before I would describe them as under-appreciated (your description)...as both (Storm Bird and Forty Niner) were both VERY strongly supported when retired to stud.
Maven wrote:Both started off very hot and were very consistent in results with mediocre to decent mares.
Storm Cat received impressive support and opportunity from his owner (WT Young) from day one, whereas it might be fair to say that Distorted Humor's quality of support and opportunity was mediocre (your word)...certainly compared to Storm Cat's.
Maven wrote:Both impart a lot of speed and versatility into their foals and when bred to the right mares, can get very good two turn horses.
The results speak for themselves.
Maven wrote:Both have a very similar body frame... muscular, great rear end, good shoulder at a very good angle.
Distorted Humor (for starters) has a longer (arguably MUCH longer) pastern than Storm Cat does, and he's not as heavy-boned as Storm Cat is. SC is clearly offset too.
Maven wrote:I think we're seeing a real changing of the guard. I think Storm Cat's demise will bring a stud increase for Distorted Humor. He seems to be the natural successor.
Distorted Humor is (to my way of thinking) defining himself as one heck of a big-time sire...Big-Time.
Maven wrote:Not taking anything away from A.P. Indy, who deserves top notch billing, but I don't see him being a 500k stallion. He's not international or versatile enough.
His international appeal has been slim (is that too generous?). Seattle Slew and his sons in general (including AP Indy) never seemed to successfully translate to the turf.
Maven wrote:If we see another 500k stallion after Storm Cat, it seems only logical it's going to be Distorted Humor. But how interesting are the parallels between the two?
An interesting discussion, but (respectfully) I don't see SC and DH as being quite as similar (except for their success/prowess as racehorse sires) as you have suggested.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Re: Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
hi Maven
Interesting observations, but I'd like to throw in my two cents because I see Storm Cat and Distorted Humor somewhat differently than you do.
If you'll allow me...
Storm Cat (if I recall correctly) started for an advertised stud fee in the area of $20,000...Distorted Humor for $7,500.
Storm Cat started off at 10k and free breeding were offered quite frequently to insure numbers got to him.
Storm Cat was arguably a head short of winning a 2-yo eclipse. Had he not been nailed at the wire in the G1-BC Juvenile (by eventual 2-yo champion Tasso)...it was arguably likely that Storm Cat would have been named the 2-yo champ. Hardly second tier (at least to my way of thinking).
He probably would have been named champion 2 year old but to his credit, he only won one stakes race.
That said...Storm Cat won 3 races (including the G1-Young America at a mile and a sixteenth) from 6 starts as a 2-yo, and finished 2nd (also as a 2-yo) in the G1-BC Juvenile. His knees were problematic, and he had chips removed from both after completion of his two-year-old campaign. He went on to start twice at age three, winning one (which by the way was NOT a stakes race) and not placing in the other. He added a mere $13k (as a 3-yo) to the $550k+ he bankrolled as a 2-yo, and was kept in training as a four-year-old..although he never started...hmmm. Knees again?
As for Distorted Humor (for comparison's sake) he was unraced as a two-year-old...and was never a G1 winner (as was Storm Cat) although he did finish 3rd in one once, that being at age five. DH was a G2 and G3 winner, and won stakes from 6 furlongs to a mile. He also won stakes every year he raced (age three, four and five)...and retired with a record of 8 wins (including 5 stakes wins) from 23 lifetime starts, and raked in over 3/4 of a million dollars in lifetime earnings.
Distorted Humor had brilliant/blazing-fast speed. Think about it...he won Keeneland's 7 furlong G2-Commonwealth BC Stakes in 1:20 2/5...and also set a New Track Record for 7 furlongs (at Churchill) in 1:21 (when he won the G2-Churchill Downs H). WOW...he could kick-in the afterburners.
No argument... as I said, both had very good speed.
That said...I would submit that Distorted Humor's style and record suggests that he was basically a sprinter. As for Storm Cat, his two graded stakes performances were both beyond a mile...one being in the 1 1/6 mile G1-Young America and the other the G1-BC Juvenile...hardly sprints.
He was maxed out at 1 1/16... watch replays.
I might describe Storm Bird and Forty Niner as underperformers before I would describe them as under-appreciated (your description)...as both (Storm Bird and Forty Niner) were both VERY strongly supported when retired to stud.
Both got plenty of top class runners and graded performers after US support dropped. Forty Niner is a classic example of a stallion given up on too soon.
Storm Cat received impressive support and opportunity from his owner (WT Young) from day one, whereas it might be fair to say that Distorted Humor's quality of support and opportunity was mediocre (your word)...certainly compared to Storm Cat's.
Storm Cat's original book was so poor that free breeding were given out repeatedly. In fact, Mr. Young's broodmare band was no where near the size or quality it was at its height. Remember, he started the band off with two Secretariat mares, the dam of Storm Cat and Cinegita. Storm Cat truly built the farm into what it was at it's height and what it is today.
The results speak for themselves.
Distorted Humor (for starters) has a longer (arguably MUCH longer) pastern than Storm Cat does, and he's not as heavy-boned as Storm Cat is. SC is clearly offset too.
I didn't say they were exactly alike. But if you think Distorted Humor isn't as heavy boned or heavy bodied, I suggest you take a look at him now. The horse is a massive, muscled stallion.
Distorted Humor is (to my way of thinking) defining himself as one heck of a big-time sire...Big-Time.
Agreed
His international appeal has been slim (is that too generous?). Seattle Slew and his sons in general (including AP Indy) never seemed to successfully translate to the turf.
Again, agreed.
An interesting discussion, but (respectfully) I don't see SC and DH as being quite as similar (except for their success/prowess as racehorse sires) as you have suggested.
Best to you.
Respectfully
I think your "memory" of how Storm Cat started is very fuzzy. I also suggest you take a look at a recent photo of Distorted Humor. Massive and impressive individual.
Interesting observations, but I'd like to throw in my two cents because I see Storm Cat and Distorted Humor somewhat differently than you do.
If you'll allow me...
Maven wrote:It's pretty amazing the parallels these two stallions (Storm Cat and Distorted Humor) have. Both started off as under-appreciated stallions in the Bluegrass for 10k I believe.
Storm Cat (if I recall correctly) started for an advertised stud fee in the area of $20,000...Distorted Humor for $7,500.
Storm Cat started off at 10k and free breeding were offered quite frequently to insure numbers got to him.
Maven wrote:Both were very fast horses who may have been considered second tier to other members of their crop.
Storm Cat was arguably a head short of winning a 2-yo eclipse. Had he not been nailed at the wire in the G1-BC Juvenile (by eventual 2-yo champion Tasso)...it was arguably likely that Storm Cat would have been named the 2-yo champ. Hardly second tier (at least to my way of thinking).
He probably would have been named champion 2 year old but to his credit, he only won one stakes race.
That said...Storm Cat won 3 races (including the G1-Young America at a mile and a sixteenth) from 6 starts as a 2-yo, and finished 2nd (also as a 2-yo) in the G1-BC Juvenile. His knees were problematic, and he had chips removed from both after completion of his two-year-old campaign. He went on to start twice at age three, winning one (which by the way was NOT a stakes race) and not placing in the other. He added a mere $13k (as a 3-yo) to the $550k+ he bankrolled as a 2-yo, and was kept in training as a four-year-old..although he never started...hmmm. Knees again?
As for Distorted Humor (for comparison's sake) he was unraced as a two-year-old...and was never a G1 winner (as was Storm Cat) although he did finish 3rd in one once, that being at age five. DH was a G2 and G3 winner, and won stakes from 6 furlongs to a mile. He also won stakes every year he raced (age three, four and five)...and retired with a record of 8 wins (including 5 stakes wins) from 23 lifetime starts, and raked in over 3/4 of a million dollars in lifetime earnings.
Distorted Humor had brilliant/blazing-fast speed. Think about it...he won Keeneland's 7 furlong G2-Commonwealth BC Stakes in 1:20 2/5...and also set a New Track Record for 7 furlongs (at Churchill) in 1:21 (when he won the G2-Churchill Downs H). WOW...he could kick-in the afterburners.
No argument... as I said, both had very good speed.
That said...I would submit that Distorted Humor's style and record suggests that he was basically a sprinter. As for Storm Cat, his two graded stakes performances were both beyond a mile...one being in the 1 1/6 mile G1-Young America and the other the G1-BC Juvenile...hardly sprints.
He was maxed out at 1 1/16... watch replays.
Maven wrote:Both (Storm Cat and Distorted Humor) are sons of stallions (Storm Bird and Forty Niner) who were under-appreciated by American breeders but who were sired by great sires of sires (Northern Dancer and Mr Prospector).
I might describe Storm Bird and Forty Niner as underperformers before I would describe them as under-appreciated (your description)...as both (Storm Bird and Forty Niner) were both VERY strongly supported when retired to stud.
Both got plenty of top class runners and graded performers after US support dropped. Forty Niner is a classic example of a stallion given up on too soon.
Maven wrote:Both started off very hot and were very consistent in results with mediocre to decent mares.
Storm Cat received impressive support and opportunity from his owner (WT Young) from day one, whereas it might be fair to say that Distorted Humor's quality of support and opportunity was mediocre (your word)...certainly compared to Storm Cat's.
Storm Cat's original book was so poor that free breeding were given out repeatedly. In fact, Mr. Young's broodmare band was no where near the size or quality it was at its height. Remember, he started the band off with two Secretariat mares, the dam of Storm Cat and Cinegita. Storm Cat truly built the farm into what it was at it's height and what it is today.
Maven wrote:Both impart a lot of speed and versatility into their foals and when bred to the right mares, can get very good two turn horses.
The results speak for themselves.
Maven wrote:Both have a very similar body frame... muscular, great rear end, good shoulder at a very good angle.
Distorted Humor (for starters) has a longer (arguably MUCH longer) pastern than Storm Cat does, and he's not as heavy-boned as Storm Cat is. SC is clearly offset too.
I didn't say they were exactly alike. But if you think Distorted Humor isn't as heavy boned or heavy bodied, I suggest you take a look at him now. The horse is a massive, muscled stallion.
Maven wrote:I think we're seeing a real changing of the guard. I think Storm Cat's demise will bring a stud increase for Distorted Humor. He seems to be the natural successor.
Distorted Humor is (to my way of thinking) defining himself as one heck of a big-time sire...Big-Time.
Agreed
Maven wrote:Not taking anything away from A.P. Indy, who deserves top notch billing, but I don't see him being a 500k stallion. He's not international or versatile enough.
His international appeal has been slim (is that too generous?). Seattle Slew and his sons in general (including AP Indy) never seemed to successfully translate to the turf.
Again, agreed.
Maven wrote:If we see another 500k stallion after Storm Cat, it seems only logical it's going to be Distorted Humor. But how interesting are the parallels between the two?
An interesting discussion, but (respectfully) I don't see SC and DH as being quite as similar (except for their success/prowess as racehorse sires) as you have suggested.
Best to you.
Respectfully
I think your "memory" of how Storm Cat started is very fuzzy. I also suggest you take a look at a recent photo of Distorted Humor. Massive and impressive individual.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
Re: Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
hi Maven
Had Storm Cat won the G1-BC Juvenile (over Tasso) and not finished 2nd to him (by a nose)...he would have had 2 Grade-1 wins to Tasso's one. That said (and all things considered)...Storm Cat (from my perspective) was hardly a second tier racehorse...as you described him.
When did Storm Cat ever expose the kind of blazing sprint-speed that Distorted Humor did. DH won in 1:20 2/5 and set a New Track Record (at Churchill) in 1:21. That said...Storm Cat might have had very good speed (your description)...but to describe Distorted Humor's speed as very good also, seems like a gross understatement (at least to my way of thinking). Distorted Humor had afterburners.
Storm Cat's BC Juvenile 2nd place finish behind Tasso (by a nose)? I watched the race live.
This is a game of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately. Obviously the $10mil offer for Forty Niner was made and accepted when he was off the boil...and confidence was waning.
I've heard that for years, and don't doubt that WT Young might have asked a number of his friends to breed to the horse; as for commercial breeders in general though...I've yet to meet anyone that says they'd received a freebie (to Storm Cat), with no strings attached.
Distorted Humor: Heavy-bodied...Yes. Heavy boned as Storm Cat...No. Longer-pasterned than Storm Cat...Yes. Weaker-looking pasterns that set down at a lower angle than Storm Cat's...Yes. As long a back as Storm Cat...No.
I've seen both Distorted Humor and Storm Cat many times, in the flesh.
Regardless our dfferences of opinion, it seems clear that we are in agreement that both Storm Cat and Distorted Humor are Big-Time racehorse sires.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Maven wrote: He probably would have been named champion 2 year old but to his credit, he only won one stakes race.
Had Storm Cat won the G1-BC Juvenile (over Tasso) and not finished 2nd to him (by a nose)...he would have had 2 Grade-1 wins to Tasso's one. That said (and all things considered)...Storm Cat (from my perspective) was hardly a second tier racehorse...as you described him.
Maven wrote: ... as I said, both (Storm Cat and Distorted Humor) had very good speed.
When did Storm Cat ever expose the kind of blazing sprint-speed that Distorted Humor did. DH won in 1:20 2/5 and set a New Track Record (at Churchill) in 1:21. That said...Storm Cat might have had very good speed (your description)...but to describe Distorted Humor's speed as very good also, seems like a gross understatement (at least to my way of thinking). Distorted Humor had afterburners.
Maven wrote: He was maxed out at 1 1/16... watch replays.
Storm Cat's BC Juvenile 2nd place finish behind Tasso (by a nose)? I watched the race live.
Maven wrote:Both got plenty of top class runners and graded performers after US support dropped.Forty Niner is a classic example of a stallion given up on too soon.
This is a game of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately. Obviously the $10mil offer for Forty Niner was made and accepted when he was off the boil...and confidence was waning.
Maven wrote:Storm Cat's original book was so poor that free breeding were given out repeatedly.
I've heard that for years, and don't doubt that WT Young might have asked a number of his friends to breed to the horse; as for commercial breeders in general though...I've yet to meet anyone that says they'd received a freebie (to Storm Cat), with no strings attached.
Maven wrote:I didn't say they were exactly alike. But if you think Distorted Humor isn't as heavy boned or heavy bodied, I suggest you take a look at him now. The horse is a massive, muscled stallion.
Distorted Humor: Heavy-bodied...Yes. Heavy boned as Storm Cat...No. Longer-pasterned than Storm Cat...Yes. Weaker-looking pasterns that set down at a lower angle than Storm Cat's...Yes. As long a back as Storm Cat...No.
Maven wrote:...I also suggest you take a look at a recent photo of Distorted Humor. Massive and impressive individual.
I've seen both Distorted Humor and Storm Cat many times, in the flesh.
Regardless our dfferences of opinion, it seems clear that we are in agreement that both Storm Cat and Distorted Humor are Big-Time racehorse sires.
Best to you.
Respectfully
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bcassidy
- Restricted Stakes Winner
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I have been on recorded for several years stating how highly I think of Distorted Humor and I find it encouraging to see DH finally getting the respect I think he deserves. In my opinion DH will turn out to be a truly awesome stallion maybe as good as the great--- Mr P, especially if he can sire the number of great stallions that Mr P delivered. The sire of sires question is still somewhat open for DH but his ability to get you top level race horses certainly isn't a question any more. Gotta love DH over SC on many levels. Think about all of those well bred SC mares that DH can entertain for his book. He should have an unbelievable career from this point on. DH is number one in my book and what I like about him and other stallions like him is that he earned his way to the top. He wasn't "made" like some other stallions are in Ky. Give me an honest stallion that outproduces his mares any day over the high priced stallions that see only the best mares and then ride the coat tails of that excellent book all the way to the top.
I really hope Northern Afleet gets a chance to prove what kind of stallion he really is. I know most people will be quite surprised by his breeding quality as well.
I really hope Northern Afleet gets a chance to prove what kind of stallion he really is. I know most people will be quite surprised by his breeding quality as well.
best regards Brendan
Re: Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
Maven wrote:It's pretty amazing the parallels these two stallions have. Both started off as under-appreciated stallions in the Bluegrass for 10k I believe.
Both were very fast horses who may have been considered second tier to other members of their crop.
Both are sons of stallions who were under-appreciated by American breeders but who were sired by great sires of sires.
Both started off very hot and were very consistent in results with mediocre to decent mares.
Both impart a lot of speed and versatility into their foals and when bred to the right mares, can get very good two turn horses.
Both have a very similar body frame... muscular, great rear end, good shoulder at a very good angle.
I think we're seeing a real changing of the guard. I think Storm Cat's demise will bring a stud increase for Distorted Humor. He seems to be the natural successor.
Not taking anything away from A.P. Indy, who deserves top notch billing, but I don't see him being a 500k stallion. He's not international or versatile enough.
If we see another 500k stallion after Storm Cat, it seems only logical it's going to be Distorted Humor. But how interesting are the parallels between the two?
I give all the credit in the world to Distorted Humor, but I disagree about AP Indy. If anyone is worthy of an incrase in stud fee, it's him, but Will Farish doesn't see the need to. How is Distorted Humor international anyway? AP Indy has been incredibly consistent and he's only getting better - he is always in the top ten on the sires list and he could be on his way to heading it for the 3rd time.
Maven, I realize you're not knocking Indy, but I just had to stick up for my favorite. If the Cat needs an heir apparent, it's Indy, although frankly, I don't think Indy needs to stand any longer in that one's shadow. At 18 years old, it's going to be time soon to ask about Indy's heir apparent.
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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Betsy, the one thing Storm Cat has that AP Indy hasn't is his ability to throw seriously top-class runners all over the world. Were he able to sire top-notch Euro and Japanese runners like Storm Cat has, he'd get that extra $200k, easily. Arguably his best runner, Mineshaft, went to Eurpoe and wasn't much good over there. Back in the US, well, he kicked butt.
The other thing about Lane's End is that they have another BIG GUN there at roughly the same fee...Kingmambo...and by keeping them at roughly the same fee they present a financially attractive bit of competition for Storm Cat. Regardless of whether you want top-notch dirt or top-notch grass, you have it, and for $200,000 less.
The other thing about Lane's End is that they have another BIG GUN there at roughly the same fee...Kingmambo...and by keeping them at roughly the same fee they present a financially attractive bit of competition for Storm Cat. Regardless of whether you want top-notch dirt or top-notch grass, you have it, and for $200,000 less.
Re: Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
hi Maven...hi all
Storm Cat actually started off with an advertised stud fee of $30,000 (in 1988)...not $10,000, as you stated, Maven.
Seems to me Maven that you're "memory" of how Storm Cat started is VERY fuzzy. My recollection was that his initial advertised stud fee was in the area of $20,000 (my words)...whereas you stated specifically (and authoritatively if I might add) that (and I quote you) "Storm Cat started off at 10k..." (your words). No ifs ands or buts about it, you wrote that "Storm Cat started off at 10k...".
Noting a comment as a recollection (as I did) is one thing...but you etched your words in stone when you wrote (and I quote you again) "Storm Cat started off at 10k..." (those were your exact words).
That said...I'd submit that you're memory of how Storm Cat started is not only VERY fuzzy...but also earns you the dubious distinction of being the first ever winner of the Fuzziest Memory Award.
Best to you.
Respectfully
Maven wrote: Storm Cat started off at 10k and free breeding were offered quite frequently to insure numbers got to him.
Storm Cat actually started off with an advertised stud fee of $30,000 (in 1988)...not $10,000, as you stated, Maven.
Maven wrote: I think your "memory" of how Storm Cat started is very fuzzy.
Seems to me Maven that you're "memory" of how Storm Cat started is VERY fuzzy. My recollection was that his initial advertised stud fee was in the area of $20,000 (my words)...whereas you stated specifically (and authoritatively if I might add) that (and I quote you) "Storm Cat started off at 10k..." (your words). No ifs ands or buts about it, you wrote that "Storm Cat started off at 10k...".
Noting a comment as a recollection (as I did) is one thing...but you etched your words in stone when you wrote (and I quote you again) "Storm Cat started off at 10k..." (those were your exact words).
That said...I'd submit that you're memory of how Storm Cat started is not only VERY fuzzy...but also earns you the dubious distinction of being the first ever winner of the Fuzziest Memory Award.
Best to you.
Respectfully
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Rokeby Forever
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Hiya FOS,
Don't be too rough on our beloved Maven. This song constantly goes through her head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxPD0D3Das
Don't be too rough on our beloved Maven. This song constantly goes through her head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxPD0D3Das
Re: Storm Cat--Distorted Humor
Betsy wrote:Maven wrote:It's pretty amazing the parallels these two stallions have. Both started off as under-appreciated stallions in the Bluegrass for 10k I believe.
Both were very fast horses who may have been considered second tier to other members of their crop.
Both are sons of stallions who were under-appreciated by American breeders but who were sired by great sires of sires.
Both started off very hot and were very consistent in results with mediocre to decent mares.
Both impart a lot of speed and versatility into their foals and when bred to the right mares, can get very good two turn horses.
Both have a very similar body frame... muscular, great rear end, good shoulder at a very good angle.
I think we're seeing a real changing of the guard. I think Storm Cat's demise will bring a stud increase for Distorted Humor. He seems to be the natural successor.
Not taking anything away from A.P. Indy, who deserves top notch billing, but I don't see him being a 500k stallion. He's not international or versatile enough.
If we see another 500k stallion after Storm Cat, it seems only logical it's going to be Distorted Humor. But how interesting are the parallels between the two?
I give all the credit in the world to Distorted Humor, but I disagree about AP Indy. If anyone is worthy of an incrase in stud fee, it's him, but Will Farish doesn't see the need to. How is Distorted Humor international anyway? AP Indy has been incredibly consistent and he's only getting better - he is always in the top ten on the sires list and he could be on his way to heading it for the 3rd time.
Maven, I realize you're not knocking Indy, but I just had to stick up for my favorite. If the Cat needs an heir apparent, it's Indy, although frankly, I don't think Indy needs to stand any longer in that one's shadow. At 18 years old, it's going to be time soon to ask about Indy's heir apparent.
Agree about AP INDY he is now every bit as worthy of a $500,000 fee as Storm Cat(not that either is worth such a fee)... but AP is in the same league as SC... and a bit better as per my numbers.
AP Indy has really come on with true "class/classic horses" the past few years i.e. Mineshaft / Bernardini and now Rags to Riches. These are the type horses that the people at the upper echelon of this "game" are seeking and if it means a $500,000 fee to get it they won't hesitate.
I actually prefer AP over SC as 'Indy puts more stamina for the classic distances in his offspring. So many SCs have distant limitations not to mention more disposed to short careers.
As for being "sire of sires" SC has been around longer and has some pretty good sons standing i.e. Hennesy / Harlan(dead)... Forestry / Giants Causeway / Tale of the Cat / Stormy Atlantic among others...... but AP Indy is younger and many of his sons have yet to have foals of racing age. Still, Pulpit is doing VERY well... Old Trieste was doing VERY well but died prematurely... and Aptitude is showing promise.. Stephen Got Even had one "big horse"(Wonderboy at 2) and has been decent at throwing some useful horses who look promising on synthetic surfaces. We'll soon be seeing Mineshafts but don't expect much til they are late 2 or 3 years olds. All in all I'd prefer breeding to AP Indy over Storm Cat.
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parsixfarms
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Rokeby Forever
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