Thoughts on free breeding offers

Avila Acres · Postby **Avila Acres** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:34 pm

Do free breedings to new stallions in a regional market ever result in genuine interest from owners with mares who are stakes placed or stakes producing or are 1/2 to black-type? Has anyone had success with this when starting out their new stallion? Or is this a strategy that goes nowhere fast?

nythoroughbredvz · Postby **nythoroughbredvz** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:44 pm

Im sure it depends on the stallion, the mares, the owners.. I dont own a stallion I hope to in the near future. a freshman sire that has some value..and this is my intentions... offer free breeding, or a minimal fee. and hope to get enough mares to him for runners on the track in his first few years..15-20 mares at say $2500.00 stud fee that I may get.. or 60 mares to add to statistics, maybe better quality mares, breders awards etc.. is a gamble but one I myself would take. and if he happens to prove himself then still offer free breedings for a percentage of breeders awards as they did Rizzie a few years ago..to each their own.. what you have to ask yourself how many mares will you get? and how many could you get? leading sires are based on progeny earinings! do you want 15-20 foals to assist in that a year, or 50-60? just my thoughts!

summerhorse · Postby **summerhorse** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:32 pm

For a good stallion and a breeder (with acceptable mares) on a budget it is a win win I think. The stallion needs mares and the mare owner may need a break financially. Of course it won't attract many BETTER mares to an inferior stallion but for a mare owner who might be deciding between similar class stallions a free breeding would be powerful incentive.

larrygene · Postby **larrygene** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:07 am

As a stallion owner, the first 3 years I need numbers and I need quality. To try and acheive both, I will give a free breeding to a SW and/or Stakes producing mare. I believe my stallions are worthy to have as good a quality of mares I can muster. If it means giving breedings away the first couple of years I will do it. PLus, will give discounts to someone who has multiple mares. I believe in my stallions so, I think it is a win win situation for me and the mare owner. And will continue to help those mare owners in the future that help me now.

Go to Mating Advice and look up the topic--FREE BREEDING!!

Larrygene

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:21 am

I agree with Larry, numbers, advertising, and some good looking kids will make a stallion his first couple years.

Wheel and deal to get the mares at the end of the season, not right now. If you have a good stud, the mares will come.

Jane · Postby **Jane** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:00 am

If I was impressed enough with the stallion and if I intended to race the resulting foals I might be interested in this kind of deal. However I would not send a stakes producer or stakes preformer to such a stallion. I like to have the option to sell (even if I usually don't) and an unproven stallion with no stud fee won't get me any profit in the ring, it will only devalue my mare.

K~2 · Postby **K~2** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:46 am

My personal thoughts are that a stakes winning/producing mare is not likely to go to a stallion that is advertised as free. I also think that if a mare owner has a stakes winner/producer they should automatically assume that a stallion owner may be willing to make a deal on a stud fee.

Offering free breedings to a stallion will attract low quality mares that will bring your stallions ability to be successful down.

Quality is better than quantity, and will be self-fulfilling, better mares will most likely have better foals that will have a better chance of making it to the barn of a better trainer.

Avila Acres · Postby **Avila Acres** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:54 am

K~2 wrote:My personal thoughts are that a stakes winning/producing mare is not likely to go to a stallion that is advertised as free. I also think that if a mare owner has a stakes winner/producer they should automatically assume that a stallion owner may be willing to make a deal on a stud fee.

Offering free breedings to a stallion will attract low quality mares that will bring your stallions ability to be successful down.

Quality is better than quantity, and will be self-fulfilling, better mares will most likely have better foals that will have a better chance of making it to the barn of a better trainer.

Thanks K2. Just to clarify, I wasn't going after stakes winners but more stakes placed and 1/2 to black-type or a neice to black-type. Also, not all black-type is equal depending on where that black-type was earned and with what company, so I would definitely be selective in quality. Conformation is also key for me.

Avila Acres · Postby **Avila Acres** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:55 am

larrygene wrote:As a stallion owner, the first 3 years I need numbers and I need quality. To try and acheive both, I will give a free breeding to a SW and/or Stakes producing mare. I believe my stallions are worthy to have as good a quality of mares I can muster. If it means giving breedings away the first couple of years I will do it. PLus, will give discounts to someone who has multiple mares. I believe in my stallions so, I think it is a win win situation for me and the mare owner. And will continue to help those mare owners in the future that help me now.

Go to Mating Advice and look up the topic--FREE BREEDING!!

Larrygene

Thank you Larrygene. I'm going to PM you with some questions if you don't mind.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:29 am

You can always advertise "special consideration to approved mares." You don't have to provide details.

I advertised Rocking Trick FREE to Roy mares to try to attract some folks and what a great shot that would be at an inside out. I didn't get a single Roy mare. I DID manage to get him 24 very decently bred mares last year. They were all mares with blacktype quite nearby, if not themselves or their other offspring.

Just to let you "in" on a little secret.. if you have a graded stakes mare (winner or producer) there are sweet deals to be had EVERYWHERE and with some of the better, more established stallions AT the better, more established farms.

At least in KY, advertising a stallion as FREE just cheapens the horse, in my opinion. It will not have the world beating a path to your door, and at sales rings everywhere you will hear people sneer at his offspring in the catalog.. "well you know that horse was FREE last year, the foals can't be worth ANYTHING..."

casallc · Postby **casallc** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:25 am

madelyn wrote:You can always advertise "special consideration to approved mares." You don't have to provide details.

I advertised Rocking Trick FREE to Roy mares to try to attract some folks and what a great shot that would be at an inside out. I didn't get a single Roy mare. I DID manage to get him 24 very decently bred mares last year. They were all mares with blacktype quite nearby, if not themselves or their other offspring.

Just to let you "in" on a little secret.. if you have a graded stakes mare (winner or producer) there are sweet deals to be had EVERYWHERE and with some of the better, more established stallions AT the better, more established farms.

At least in KY, advertising a stallion as FREE just cheapens the horse, in my opinion. It will not have the world beating a path to your door, and at sales rings everywhere you will hear people sneer at his offspring in the catalog.. "well you know that horse was FREE last year, the foals can't be worth ANYTHING..."

I agree, it's OK to give as many breedings away as you want just don't advertise it. Always advertise a stud fee but make all freebies think they are the only one, it is nobody's business how many free breedings you give. To advertise free breedings you will cheapen the horse and his get. Be selective in the kind of mare and more importantly the kind of people you are breeding for. If they have no clue about the business it is doubtful the offspring will ever see the track. Remember numbers can be as harmful as beneficial. A lot of foals who never start doesn't help at all.
The secret is putting the get of your horse into the right hands.

winds · Postby **winds** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:56 am

Wow casallc we agree on something. There is hope for us after all

winds

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:06 pm

"Free to approved mares" got Dynaformer and Benchmark off the ground. I don't know if they were bred to anything worth more than a six pack early on, but they got the chance with some mares to prove themselves, as opposed to getting no mares at all.

Dynaformer...free to approved mares? If only we could turn back the clock, huh?

Jenny · Postby **Jenny** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:26 pm

I agree with Casallc.
Advertise a stud fee and give deals if you want to. We made a bit of a mistake putting GONE FISHIN up for what we did. He should never have been at 2k we should have started at 5k. He is worth every penny. But being from a smaller farm and out of the way of T.O. We thought it best. But there is no room to move on that sort of price for deals. I think we might have cheapened him. The only deal we offered was for Stakes mares etc. at 25% discount also for multiple bookings. We might have to offer some sort of re-breeding discount after the mares foal out as a little insentive to come back. Then you really cannot move the fee up until either foals go to the sale or he has runners. So we are stuck for now at 2k. He did book 18 mares. And I know for some of you in the US that does not seem like many. but here in Ontario the total for the whole province I think is only around 1200. So I think we did well. He bred 16. My 1 mare was such a b#%$ch that I had to send her elsewhere. Of course she is the mare that made over 125k at the races. The other mare just would not cycle. It is nice to say quality over quantity, but you still need numbers 2 or 3 foals a year is not going to help a stallion stats no matter if he bred 2 G1 winners!!! So the first foals start arriving soon and I guess we will see what they are like. Hopefully they are just like him.

We are so excited. Good luck to all who are trying to stand a stallion of their own. It is very hard work but can be so rewarding.

casallc · Postby **casallc** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:02 pm

One of the indisputable truths of business is "You will usually work harder for less money". Another reason to use discretion in the mares you accept, someones hard luck story mare that is a nightmare to breed or get in foal will gain you nothing but aggravation. Be ready to hear the owners gripe about the board and vet charges - they'll expect them to be free too.