Which unprovens to breed to in 2005...it's decision time...

[FOS]

hi guys

Okay...it's 2005 now and the northern-hemisphere breeding season is almost upon us.

With that in mind...which unproven stallions
(in Kentucky...Florida...New York...Califiornia...Maryland...Texas...Washington state...Canada etc) do (or did) you book your mares to...that you consider nothing-less than very good value? Hopefully with a big upside.

Consider ONLY stallions just retiring to stud...or with first crops arriving in 2005...or yearlings of 2005...or 2 year-olds of 2005.

Happy New Year...and a successful foaling and breeding season to all !

Respectfully

[liberty]

I look forward to reading the threads from this post. One might remember that Bill had Successful Appeal last year. I have looked thru the index at the sires with first 2 year olds in 2005 and haven't reached any conclusiions. Based on their yearling sales, Trippi and Forest Camp stand out.

Since you included sires with first crop yearlings of 2005, I thing that Cat's At Home standing at Windfields in Canada is a sleeper. I have 2 yearlings by him, and ther are very good. I have heard favorable comments about his other youngsters. I have read some bias against Tobasco Cat on this board, but you you can't have everything in an expensive stud.

Let's hear from many more people.

[Sylvie Hebert]

i have a 2004 colt by Honour Attendant,sending mare back to him and a second mare too.

[louis finochio]

When looking for freshman sires to launch a successful career in the breeding shed, I look for the following breeding patterns.

I like to find a pattern of sire of sires for generations.
I look for female families that have produced successful sires.
And I look for a sires and female familys that have produced the upper echelon of Broodmare Sires.

When you narrow down your selection to the above you will have the percentages on your side.

[LSB]

I've booked to two unproven stallions, both standing their second seasons, nothing yet on the ground. With an eye toward the sales, I have one mare going to Vindication and another to Proud Citizen.

If things had worked out differently, or I'd had different mares, I would have been happy to breed to Speightstown, Lion Heart, Strong Hope, and The Cliff's Edge.

And if money was no object, LOL, I would love to have a mare in foal to Mineshaft.

[Mike]

If I was in the NH, I would like to go to Speightstown. Looks to have been a hardy racehorse that wasn't put in cotton wool.

[henthorn]

See Candy Ride and other new sires thread begun on October 3. Many are addressed in that series.

[henthorn]

Sons of Cherokee Run may become successful, such as During, Yonaguska, and Kafwain. Sons of Unbridled such as Wheelaway in NY and Saarland in KY. Sons of AP Indy such as Jump Start. Hard to pick among all the recent Storm Cat sons, but I'm hoping Vision and Verse will have runners and earn some respect, since he at least was a millionaire runner. The Wild Agains such as Vicar and Milwaukee Brew are pretty speculative as commercial prospects, but I expect them to produce winners. I hope the sons of Cozzene will start to develop commercial appeal, as they've proven they are talented and that Alphabet Soup is productive. Mizzen Mast should benefit.

[halo]

I dont have high powered mares with a lot of black type, and I definitely have a beer budget. I also breed strictly to race. I sometimes wonder if Im breeding a totally different breed of horse sometimes. Anyway, I like to try and breed to a horse who is a proven producer of good quality race horses. Not always easy to do on a beer budget. Personally, I dont like breeding to first year horses, as I like to see what a stallion is producing before sending my mares out. I dont mind breeding to 2nd and 3rd year horses, as being in Ocala I get a pretty good buzz on which stallions are producing athletes, and which just arent doing the job. I also like to watch the freshmen sires to see someone under the radar, a horse who has produced better horses than expected with moderate support. I also like to keep my stud fee expenses under $3,000, tho I did splurge and spend $3500 when I bred to Saint Ballado. But that was the most I ever spent.

That being said, my mares are in foal to Lexicon and Northern Afleet, and I am breeding them back to Sweetsouthernsaint and Snuck In. My newly turned yearlings are by Lexicon, Sweetsouthernsaint, and Metfield, and my newly turned 2 year olds are by Dove Hunt (2), Line in the Sand, Suave Prospect, and Outflanker. Pretty boring bunch of stallions if you are looking for sires to sell your foals in 2 years. So as I said, I feel like Im really breeding a totally different breed of horse sometimes. But I need to breed to stallions that I know can get quality race horses, and these I feel do, for bargain prices.

Now on a totally different tack, at the farm where I work, we are sending mares to Peace Rules, Candy Ride, Congaree, Forest Camp, and Indian Charlie, among others.

[henthorn]

Hard to believe Saint Ballado was ever available for $3500 fee. You have a lot of productive reasonably-priced stallions in Florida to choose from. You're right about the reasons different people choose certain stallions. If breeding to race, you only have to please yourself, not a potential customer. Some of the best producers of tough late-blooming horses are at $7,500 and less. And this year a phenomenon is occurring in which large books for commercial studs are draining mares from less commercial studs. Many good studs dropped their fees this year. Not a good thing for the stud farms, but great news for breed-to-race mare owners.

[halo]

Henthorn, Saint Ballado was actually at $2500 for the first 4 years. He was upped to $3500 the year Captain Bodgit was a 3 year old. I whined about the increase in fee, but did no good. Had to cough up the $3500. Funny thing about Saint Ballado, also, was that his first sales were moderate at best. His foals really werent that good looking. Guess you just never know. I remember watching one of his yearlings sell for the amazing price of $50,000. The page was totally devoid of black type, none, nothing. Couldnt believe it, but the filly ended up winning stakes. A good stallion is a good stallion, and doesnt need a book full of stakes winning and producing mares to prove it.

[Derby2004]

The Sweetsouthernsaint might turn out to be something special. If Better Than Bonds has a good Triple Crown Trail showing, he will be the next hot thing out of Florida

[Keith]

1. Parker's Storm Cat by Storm Cat-Macoumba by Mr. Prospector $3,000-
half brother to Malibu Moon the sire of Declan's Moon-(possible 2yo champion)
2. Sarava by Wild Again-Rhythm of Life by Deputy Minister $5,000- winner of the Belmont S.
3. Jump Start by A.P.Indy-Steady Cat by Storm Cat -$10,000- winner of the Saratoga Special
4. Birdstone by Grindstone-Dear Birdie by Storm Bird -$10,000 winner of the Belmont S. over Smarty Jones
5. Millenium Wind by Cryptoclearance-Bali Babe by Drone $7,500 winner of the Blue Grass S. and half brother to Horse of the Year Charismatic
6. Flatter by A.P. Indy-Praise by Mr. Prospector ( 2nd dam by Northern Dancer, 3rd dam Glowing Tribute) $5,000 and winner of 4 of 6 races and graded stakes placed.
7. Duckhorn by Not for Love-Ten's Testamony by Deputed Testamony $2500 winner of $747,812 and the Hawthorne Gold Cup over Lido Palace.
8. Delaware Township by Notebook-Sunny Mimosa by Sunny North $6,500 Multiple Grade 1 winner of $996,950
9. Flame Thrower by Saint Ballado-Metromane by Metrogrand $6,500 winner of $458,200 Del Mar Futurity,Norfolk S., Best Pal S. ,etc.
10. Bowman's Band by Dixieland Band-Hometown Queen by Pleasant Colony- $6,000 winner of $1,295,774 and a brother to the dam of Pollard's Vision and out of a 1/2 sister to the dam of Sightseek and from the family of Winning Colors and Chief's Crown.

[halo]

Another point, which George touched on in another thread, which also impacts on breeding to new stallions, is the old theory on breeding proven mares to unproven stallions and vice versa. If you have young mares that havent had foals yet or foals to race, its really a monstrous gamble breeding them to unproven stallions. If ones long range plan (do people have long range plans anymore??) is to keep a broodmare and prove her, it would definitely behoove them to breed to a proven horse, rather than unproven new horses. Odds are that most new stallions will be failures, and its really a crap shoot trying to figure out which ones will be good sires.

I didnt mean to get off the main topic here. I tend to do that, sorry.

[Denise]

To have a baby by Sweetsouthernsaint already, and to be thinking about getting another.
We've had our eye on this young stallion since a dinner conversation with friends over the summer. One of the guests was a connection of SSS (father/uncle had raced him)and he had a share or two in him.
I think SSS is batting around 50% winners from some 24 starters, with a couple stakes winners already?
Very nice numbers and he doesn't seem to be getting much attention. Is he not well known outside FLA? I know we've seen one of his here in PA who's really nice. Bad name though, especially for a filly: BigNose. Not sure what they were thinking.
Anyway, best of luck with your yearling.