Theory re: Wild Again and sons

[Dave C]

I was looking for NA sources of Hyperion blood this weekend for a stallion which of course led me to Wild Again and Dixieland Band. Since I have a friend with a son of Wild Again, and he always comments on the fact that WA had no real known nicking pattern (83 SW, with 79 different BMS), and since WA is 4x3 to Hyperion I decided to check out the prevalence of Hyperion in the pedigrees of WA's stakes winners.

What I found was that a shocking number of WA's stakes winners are loaded with the blood of Gainsborough, through his great son Hyperion, and his great daughter Mah Mahal, with the occasional occurence of Solario. I took a look at several of WA's sons at stud and the same pattern emerged. I considered the possibility that Gainsborough being a very old influence may be in just about every pedigree, but when I looked through my friends mares and my own mares I found that mares with 6 to 10 crosses of Gainsborough were not very common. When you consider that most of the RAN, Bold Ruler, In Reality line sires have no or only one occurence of Gainsborough I started to think that this pattern may be significant.

If you just make a quick perusal of the catalogue pages of WA sons the most common line for Broodmare sires is Northern Dancer, who has two occurences of Gainsborough: Hyperion as BMS of Nearctic, Mah Mahal as dam of Mahmoud.

The theory therefore is that if you have a son of WA or are considering breeding to a son of WA you should check for the presence of Gainsborough in the mare. Since Gainsborough is usually very far back in the pedigree you need many occurences for it to be significant which is why I used the range of 6 - 10, the closer up in the pedigree the better.

[ct2346]

Check the truenicks website. There's interesting info on a nicking pattern between Wild Again and Holy Bull via Milwaukee Brew. This may be in reverse (WA on the dam side) but should still be of interest. I do believe there is something to this as I own a Wild Rush mare and he too shows fondness for Holy Bull.

Good luck

[rudydee]

Great information Dave! Thanks for posting.

[karenkarenn]

So dave
Do you think that I should take my mare Deaconess ( Wild Deputy x Magic Fable) to bred to Holy Bull this breeding year?
Karen

[ct2346]

Furthering on Dave's Gainsborough obsevation as relates ties to the Holy Bull nick is the double presence of Ma Mahal in Sharon Brown, the dam of Holy Bull.

I think there is a very strong nick here with Wild Again, and it seems to work both ways.

[LB]

Thanks Dave C! That's very interesting.

[karenkarenn]

yeah, but how many Wild Again Holly Bull Crosses are out there in the world now. I think we need to let them in the entirety talk for themselves. I mean I can bred my mare with Holly Bull but that doesnt meant that its going to be a good on.
Karen

[Dave C]

I was actually not even considering the Holy Bull angle, but it certainly looks interesting with Al Hattab having Mah Mahal, Hyperion, and Solario in his pedigree. I was looking more along the lines of crossing Wild Again to Dixieland Band (Wild Zone has 2 SW out of the same DB mare), as well as looking at Nureyev, and His Majesty.

As for Deaconess Karen, Wild Deputy is one of the exceptions to the general trend I observed. With the exception of Northern Dancer, Wild Deputy's dam did not add much Gainsborough, and Magic Fable doesn't seem to have a whole lot of Gainsborough either, so unless you have other reasons for breeding to Holy Bull, I certainly wouldn't say go for it based on a theory that is all of 2 days old. As for any theory guaranteeing success, that would be a little much to expect. If you can find a cross that gives you a 25% success rate you have to be ecstatic with that.

[karenkarenn]

Dave Can I pm you?
Karen

[Dave C]

Sure

[Strategic Maneuver]

Thanks so much for this interesting thread as I'm not all that familiar with the WA line and was interested to learn in another thread that it is a source of soundness. I had been thinking about breeding a maiden TX bred to Wimbledon as I couldn't find another stallion in TX that really worked with her. I checked the linebreeding for Hyperion and Gainsb. crosses, and they fit your criteria. Thanks again as it will help me make a decision.

[JaradM]

Thanks for sharing this research. I am breeding 2 of my mares to Gigawatt who is a son of Wild Again. Both mares have the presence of Gainsborough & Hyperion.

[DDT]

Dave C

If you look at Northern Dancer, he also had great success when Hyperion or Mahmoud returned via the dam, especially when both were present. As Icecapade, the sire of Wild Again, was bred along similar lines as Northern Dancer it does not surprise me that Wild Again had success when his mares returned Gainsborough in any manner but mainly through Hyperion and Mahmoud.

DDT

[Roger]

Thanks so much for this interesting thread as I'm not all that familiar with the WA line and was interested to learn in another thread that it is a source of soundness. I had been thinking about breeding a maiden TX bred to Wimbledon as I couldn't find another stallion in TX that really worked with her. I checked the linebreeding for Hyperion and Gainsb. crosses, and they fit your criteria. Thanks again as it will help me make a decision.

I like Gigawatt for both my mares. I liked the Wiimbeldon that sold through the yearling sale, but they like everything seemed to fail to meet the stud fee.

[Strategic Maneuver]

Rog, I agree that Gigawatt has a stronger pedigree than Wimbledon and he would be my first choice for this mare, but she went to South LA last year and came back empty so think I 'll take a chance on Wimbledon as I know that Donnie will get her IF.