I got a solicitation call from a big stud farm today, offering me 50% off for their second-highest priced horse for the last mare I have to book for this year that will go to an "outside" stallion and not be bred to Rocking Trick.
I explained that I do not intend to sign a single contract this year that requires me to pay any sort of stud fee out of pocket and was met with stunned silence. I personally do not have ANY confidence at all in the new president, nor any kind of recovery of the economy, let alone the TB market, for several years to come. Regardless of how well intentioned Obama might be, I think the rest of the government will work very hard against him. And unfortunately, I don't think even Obama can undo the free trade agreements from the Clinton era and bring back those millions of jobs for Americans now that they have mass migrated to Asia, nor stop the migration from continuing. If the November and January sales have taught breeders anything, it might be that mare owners are virtually 90% likely to not be able to recover a stud fee over $5K at any sales for some time to come, regardless of how much blacktype the mare has.
I have a few free seasons left from last year to use, and I have found one good foal share for one mare and will seek another. Contrarily, the response for Rocking Trick has been very good. A fellow came over yesterday in person to book a mare for the Indiana mare discount program. Folks who bred in the past have already called to book again (they got such lovely foals last year and the year before). He is priced well for breed to race.
So I wonder how the stallion books are doing this year? Anyone know?
I Wonder How the Books are Doing?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
I Wonder How the Books are Doing?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
We've been to a number of the big stud farms to look at stallions recently and based on what we've been hearing, overall bookings seem to be running about 30% behind what they were last year this time.
The most popular stallions are already full, and the next highest tier is getting there. Below that, bookings are only trickling in slowly. I'd imagine that will begin to change shortly, however, as mares who have already foaled will need to be bred back.
The most popular stallions are already full, and the next highest tier is getting there. Below that, bookings are only trickling in slowly. I'd imagine that will begin to change shortly, however, as mares who have already foaled will need to be bred back.
Surprisingly, stud farms have been pretty firm on their fees. It seems they don't want to come out of these troubled times with a stallion market where perceived value is markedly lower, so they're willing to take their licks this year and keep the long term in mind. Or maybe it's pure ego and they don't like to be leveraged with all the bad economic news. It's probably a function of each individual farm and their respective situations. I've had little if any luck in getting deals... and have heard similar stories from other breeders/agents.
In a way, I am finding the market is a bit liberating when it comes to selecting a stallion. There are some sires that I have always loved when matched with my mares but I have shied away from them because I always said, "they'll never sell." Heck, the way the market is now, NOTHING sells so I am actually taking a more serious look at these stallions this year.
-
springboro
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1305
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:53 am
wow.. just found this at Hurricane Hall website:
"Dear Fellow Breeders,
We are determined to offer fair stud fee value. Stud fees are far too high. Reach for your annual Blood-Horse or Thoroughbred Times auction book and ask yourself if there has been a disconnect between stud fees and the market for horses. Frenetic competition for stallions has driven the divide.
As a third generation commercial breeder I assure you that we have been and will continue to be passionate and realistic about our quality and its price…the stud fee to you. We also want to serve you with our people. Give us a call. You’ll find us to be both flexible and fair."
"Dear Fellow Breeders,
We are determined to offer fair stud fee value. Stud fees are far too high. Reach for your annual Blood-Horse or Thoroughbred Times auction book and ask yourself if there has been a disconnect between stud fees and the market for horses. Frenetic competition for stallions has driven the divide.
As a third generation commercial breeder I assure you that we have been and will continue to be passionate and realistic about our quality and its price…the stud fee to you. We also want to serve you with our people. Give us a call. You’ll find us to be both flexible and fair."
I think, more than ever before, mare owners should consider breed-to-race, and only breed-to-race.
Agents can often get better deals for stud fees than individual owners can, due to volume. The market this year is where I think only the tough will survive. Time to sharpen the pencils and get brutal. We are in bandit territory.
Agents can often get better deals for stud fees than individual owners can, due to volume. The market this year is where I think only the tough will survive. Time to sharpen the pencils and get brutal. We are in bandit territory.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
springboro wrote:wow.. just found this at Hurricane Hall website:
"Dear Fellow Breeders,
We are determined to offer fair stud fee value. Stud fees are far too high. Reach for your annual Blood-Horse or Thoroughbred Times auction book and ask yourself if there has been a disconnect between stud fees and the market for horses. Frenetic competition for stallions has driven the divide.
As a third generation commercial breeder I assure you that we have been and will continue to be passionate and realistic about our quality and its price…the stud fee to you. We also want to serve you with our people. Give us a call. You’ll find us to be both flexible and fair."
Doesn't surprise me. We visited their stallions last May and Hurricane Hall was just a class act from the word go! All the stallions looked great and their stallion manager was about as nice as they come, and he knew what he was doing. Loved that place!
I've been trying to get a look at Hurricane Hall online. Anybody know where I can find good pictures? I tried their site and Google. I have to say I appreciate their philosophy and wish them well.
Here's a question to supplement the one on books, do we expect a sharp decrease in BC nominations given the economy or will the foals produced be more likely to be nominated since breeders were more selective in which mares they bred to what stallions and more might plan to race the foals themselves?
Here's a question to supplement the one on books, do we expect a sharp decrease in BC nominations given the economy or will the foals produced be more likely to be nominated since breeders were more selective in which mares they bred to what stallions and more might plan to race the foals themselves?
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
I do think that the market will force, stud owners to de valueting their
stallions.
But most of them can an will not do this in a short time as shares needs to written down as well.
It is like the stock do you take your loss on an investment or not, or do you wait for the time when it is gooiing to happen.
IMHO the market will go down at least with another 20%, and the time for blossomming again may take a 4 or 5 yrs period. The meltdown is far deeper than anyone can imagizine
stallions.
But most of them can an will not do this in a short time as shares needs to written down as well.
It is like the stock do you take your loss on an investment or not, or do you wait for the time when it is gooiing to happen.
IMHO the market will go down at least with another 20%, and the time for blossomming again may take a 4 or 5 yrs period. The meltdown is far deeper than anyone can imagizine
-
BargainBlueblood
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:02 pm
It's also interesting when you consider the value of stallion seasons, that there's a lot of game-playing at the sales that inflates the averages for yearling/weanling prices, and that makes it a real minefield to try to navigate the commercial market. In this economy, if you're bringing a good mare to the table -- something with solid black-type and/or a solid production record -- I feel like stallion managers need to step up and get a little creative to ensure that booking.
As for Hurricane Hall - I would be skeptical of their website "words."
They were very unresponsive in my opinion.
I ask for 10k on Artie vs. 15k and was denied. The mare in question was approved to 4 20k+ stallions - they claimed they would not discount him as he was fair priced.
They must think the market is just fine where it is?
They were very unresponsive in my opinion.
I ask for 10k on Artie vs. 15k and was denied. The mare in question was approved to 4 20k+ stallions - they claimed they would not discount him as he was fair priced.
They must think the market is just fine where it is?
6 more bookings in the last 2 days...ours are doing GGGGRRRREAT!!!!
too weird to live...too rare to die
www.ascotstudfarm.com
www.ascotstudfarm.com