Fu Peg....

Discussion and analysis of thoroughbred stallions.

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freddymo
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Fu Peg....

Postby freddymo » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:54 am

I read today that Fu Peg covered almost 400 mares between KY and Australia... OH MY GOD.. How many foals do you think will hit the ground? I can't beieve almost 400 mares this seems nuts. I know he is a stallion ,but how long can a horse breed at this rate. I mean this seems crazy? Any Thoughts?

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madelyn
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Postby madelyn » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:03 am

The real question is what are they going to bring dollarwise when there are so Many of Them? It is an interesting thought that perhaps his connections have so Little Faith in him they are breeding relatively indiscriminatingly to "cash in" the chips before too much more is proven one way or the other.

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BenB
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fu peg

Postby BenB » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:03 pm

What do you think it,s gooiing to happen. When no one of his 3 years olds
hit a big race? The Run for the Roses, the preakness, or the Belmont?
Then his marketvalue, is gooiing down sharply. So up till now he is having the one for him ( fu sam). And they are just cashing.
They also dooiing this game with choisir (334 mares).
Coolmore has done it before with Danehill.

Ben

rascal
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Postby rascal » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:25 pm

...and Danehill is dead, too. :roll:

Sam
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Postby Sam » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:26 pm

rascal wrote:...and Danehill is dead, too. :roll:

Yeah but what a way to go :wink:

louis finochio
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Postby louis finochio » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:44 pm

When you burn the candle at both ends, there is nothing left to burn, shame shame on his connections.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

griff
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Postby griff » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:59 pm

It's all about shots-on-goal.

A stallion covering 400 mares and gettign 200 foals probably has four times the chance of hitting one ot two out of the park as a stallion covering 100 mares and getting 50 foals. And, if the many-foal stallion does get some serious winners people are not going to do the numbers and try to dismiss the results

I suspect they are still getting to pick and cloose what mares are bred; i.e, there are a lot of mares out there and the fact that he has a huge book does not mean he's breeding inferior mares.

griff
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FOS
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Postby FOS » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:08 pm

hi freddymo...madelyn...BenB...Rascal...Sam...louis finochio...griff,

I suggest that much (if not all) of what you have said is right on target.

Interesting analogy griff..."shots-on-goal."

Regardless...it's clear that the Coolmore guys have (at the very least) a number of nice stallions (whether we agree with the way they manage them or not)...and their marketing...advertising...spin...etc etc etc is arguably some of the best (if not THE best) this industry has ever seen...but I sense that there is a quiet-displeasure (for lack of a better description) that seems to get louder when conversation includes the size of their stallion's books...

...and I suggest that the release of FuPeg's northern and southern hemisphere totals (of mares bred) seems to have turned the heat up on the subject.

Your comments are loud and clear...and seem to express the sentiments of many in the thoroughbred community.

Respectfully

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Karie
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Postby Karie » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:49 pm

Well.. I can tell you this.. my friend said that her mare was approved to breed to Fu Peg his first year.. She is an Un-raced Service Stripe mare.
Her dam was the dam of a Stakes Placed filly and that is IT!

I think they wont tell anyone no as long as they can fork over the $$$$

She Obiviously didn't have the $$$ to breed her to him.

Scary huh???

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BenB
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fu peg

Postby BenB » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:34 am

some 14 years ago, I spoke to John Clarke managing director of the Irish
National stud. He stated, that it (breeding)was gooiing to become a numbers game. How true is has become.

Ben

Cathy D
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Postby Cathy D » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:34 am

Anyone remember Woodman? That's pretty much how he was managed. Woodman was initially quite popular as a good looking, champion son of Mr. P. He did get the big horse early in Hansel and Timber Country, but he also bred huge books with many less than stellar mares, and as a result, never could put up the percentages for quality commensurate with top stallions. In my opinion, it backfired on them in the long run. It also back fired on a lot of breeders, many of whom were hosed when the Woodnman glut hit the market. People did look at the percentages of GSW/SW to foals and the sales results, and didn't send their top quality mares to Woodman. What's a Woodman yearling worth today? I expect FuPeg's stud career to be a Woodman re-run.

horsenuts
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Postby horsenuts » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:49 am

Cathy D wrote:Anyone remember Woodman? That's pretty much how he was managed. Woodman was initially quite popular as a good looking, champion son of Mr. P. He did get the big horse early in Hansel and Timber Country, but he also bred huge books with many less than stellar mares, and as a result, never could put up the percentages for quality commensurate with top stallions. In my opinion, it backfired on them in the long run. It also back fired on a lot of breeders, many of whom were hosed when the Woodnman glut hit the market. People did look at the percentages of GSW/SW to foals and the sales results, and didn't send their top quality mares to Woodman. What's a Woodman yearling worth today? I expect FuPeg's stud career to be a Woodman re-run.


I see Thunder Gulch going down the same road. He looked like he was going to be a fantastic sire just as it appeared Woodman was going to be as well. TG sired Point Given among others but has since cooled way off similar to what Woodman. Both have had enormous books of mares sent to them.

It appears that large books cause a severe decline in a stallions ability to sire the "top horse" as noted by both Woodman and TG. New studs with small books have "knocked it out of the park" recently i.e Successful Appeal's first crop of 37 foals were outstanding. How many foals did Danzig's first crop consist of?... that crop which included Chief's Crown still holds the record for earnings bya freshman sire(2.3 mil +)20 + years later... amazing.

Bold Ruler's crop sizes were limited as well and look at the incredible numbers he put and I'm sure Northern Dancer had small crops his first 6-7 years in comparison to today's world and just look at the fantastic horses he sired. Same with the early years of Mr P.

Storm Cat seems to have held up pretty well despite the 80-90 plus mares he has received. So the verdict is still out but it appears when the mega-crops and dual season breeding commences the quality really suffers/drops off.... WAY OFF.

freddymo
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Postby freddymo » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:57 am

400 is to many mares. There 200 plus Fu Peg's hitting the ground. Early indication are that his 2yr olds will be fast to win. Think how many there have to be look good. Maybe it is a #'s game. The more swings the better chance of hitting a homer?

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Postby LSB » Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:46 am

I am no fan of these big books (didn't breed to Grand Slam two years ago at 30K entirely for that reason, though I'm now kind of kicking myself that I didn't) but I'd like to point out that the reason Thunder Gulch cooled off after initially siring some good horses in his first couple of crops is that he wasn't here. Coolmore got the bright idea to send him to Japan for the, usually unpopular, third and fourth years at stud which meant that when his big horses hit, he wasn't available for American breeders to use. That was another Coolmore idea that backfired.

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Postby LSB » Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:49 am

However, back to the subject of FuPeg...one thing that interested me at last year's September sale was that the majority of his yearlings I looked at had inherited their sire's long pasterns. That particular fault tends to be the kiss of death in a sales yearling, but for FuPeg's offspring it didn't seem to affect their desirability at all.