Breeding back to the classic lines

[radrider]

Just curious, but do people ever breed back to classic lines, like lines starting to go away. For instance I saw an ad for a stallion, half brother to Stop the Music and Hatchet Man. You don't see those lines very often, or say for instance, Cetewayo, one of the last sons of His Majesty or old GB lines like Sharpen Up. Is the classicly bred horse being bred out for the sake of Storm Cats, Big Browns, that bit of the pedigree, make a big blowout and then blow up the industry with overly inbred horses? Where's the outcrosses, the good old awesome racehorses with the pedigree to back it up? Where do you guys think the future of thoroughbred breeding is going?

[Tappiano]

The market has been breeding for the pretty pony that brings a lot of money in the sales ring for years now. There are still plenty of Pleasant Colony's at stud so His Majesty is alive and well so to speak but nobody breeds to that line for the sales market so there are not that many of them.

[zinn21]

Radrider good question. IMO most of the breeding today emphasize speed. Thirty years ago you saw a variety of stallions being bred to daughters of classic/professional sires such as Count Fleet, Tom Fool, Gallant Man, Blenheim, Princequillo and Prince John. Today many are daughters of Raise A Native line stallions.. It's about time we get back to breeding to more stamina influenced mares otherwise we may never see another Derby/Belmont winner break 2:02 @ a mile and a quarter or 2:28 for a mile and a half..

[ASB]

A lot of the stallions representing these "classic" lines are great for nostalgic reasons, but that's about it. They're not producing anything of much class and it's been the way of the breed that sire lines fade with time to give way to others.

If you're breeding to race, I see no real purpose in breeding to something only because he has an "old" pedigree. And heaven knows there's enough good, quality stallions with older pedigrees that are currently producing extremely well such as Pleasant Tap, Raffie's Majesty, Concorde's Tune, etc.

[Joltman]

If, as is often supposed, the industry is breeding early maturing, speedsters who lack stamina, why don't the handful of breeders (and stallion owners) who DO breed for classic distances clean up? I would think that market forces would have corrected this imbalance by now. The real money is in mile and an eighth plus races - why not go for it? Why aren't some of the little guys who go for it cleaning up?

jm

[kimberley mine]

It goes both ways.

If every race on the card is a mile or less, there isn't anywhere for a dyed in the wool stayer to run.

The big $$$ may be in 10f races, but how many 10f+ races are there at the ham and eggs level? For the breeders and owners who make up the bulk of the game, it's a lot better AND more profitable to have a horse who can do 5f to a mile happily, rather than a dour stayer who stays in the barn for lack of a good spot to run.

[Sysonby]

That's it in a nutshell kimberley mine. There's the same problem with turf horses. Turf races aren't even run half the year in most of the country and the bulk of the races on turf are for a better sort of runner. If you breed a turfer under a stakes, allowance or high level claimer (and that's most of us) there will be no place for you to run that horse other than maybe at a synthetic track going long.

Breeding a classic two turn horse or turfer is the racing equivalent at swinging for the fences but even Babe Ruth missed most of the time.

[Patuxet]

There's an egregious lack of turf races for 3YO's beyond 10 furlongs and consequently no logical way for a good one to be raced up to a test against its elders in the BC Turf or Fillies and Mares Turf.

[kimberley mine]

That's it in a nutshell kimberley mine. There's the same problem with turf horses. Turf races aren't even run half the year in most of the country and the bulk of the races on turf are for a better sort of runner. If you breed a turfer under a stakes, allowance or high level claimer (and that's most of us) there will be no place for you to run that horse other than maybe at a synthetic track going long.

Breeding a classic two turn horse or turfer is the racing equivalent at swinging for the fences but even Babe Ruth missed most of the time.

The east, and especially the mid-atlantic, has the other option for the long-running turfers--chasing. The purses don't even begin to compare to flat purses, and it's not an option at ALL for anybody west of the Mississippi. I think the only "name" flat meet that caters for chasers is the summer meet at Colonial, where the chasers will tune up on the flat before going to the fall jumps meets.

There is a small market for regional horses going short on the grass (LA-breds in particular) BUT as more speedy grass types hit the races, and thus better horses fill those races, that will go away.

[Hotwalker]

ASB used Raffie's Majesty as an example and that was the point I was going to make. Goes back to Ribot and happens to lead New York stallions for average earnings per starter. Total outcross to ND or Raise A Native so lots of possibilities with the right physical mare.

But fashionable and stamina is not mutually exclusive, is it? Awesome Again, AP Indy, Dynaformer, Smart Strike...their offspring can get the distance.