Congrats vs Bernardini

[oliverstoned]

I think Bernardini supporters are very pleased with his start but what Congrats has done with the mares he got is way more impressive to me. Perhaps their stud fees will converge in the coming years.

[LB]

Add in Bluegrass Cat and the top of this year's first crop sire list becomes a virtual A.P. Indy lovefest.

[Bast]

Add in Bluegrass Cat and the top of this year's first crop sire list becomes a virtual A.P. Indy lovefest.

The re-ascendency of Bold Ruler...

[Bast]

This has to be an error (doesn't it?). Equibase shows Congrats with the following work:

The Thoroughbred Center 11/14/10 Dirt
4F 51.20 Breezing

[Laurierace]

Yes, that is definitely an error. Happens all the time.

[ASB]

It's a work of an unnamed Congrats foal. They'll often just attach the sire's name to a published work of a horse if it's yet to be named or it's unclear what it's registered name is.

[Laurierace]

Unnamed horses are supposed to work under the dam's name, but you are correct that it is the most likely explanation. Followed by flat out mistake.

[Hotwalker]

I don't think their stud fees will converge because Bernardini will continue to get better mares because of his high stud fee, and turn out a better AEI and a higher % of stake winners. His race record and conformation lead me to think he'll be the better overall stallion.

[oliverstoned]

After awhile the race records will be irrelevant and I actually prefer Congrats' bottom line and conformation. If it ever happens it would take along time though as I expect Congrats to have a bit of a lull with the next couple of crops while Berardini will be motoring ahead with every opportunity. Even this year Congrats won't be getting anywhere near the book Bernardini is. As far as who the better sire is, all things being equal I'm not quite sure yet.

[LB]

The big difference between them at the moment is that Bernardini wasn't necessarily expected to have precocious 2yos while Congrats, bred to those speedy Florida mares, was no surprise when his offspring came out running.

Most breeders expect the Bernardinis to come on strong this year and the longer distances should only help them thrive. While--as oliverstoned pointed out--Congrats will now have to work through three years of lesser books, a handicap that Bernardini wasn't subject to.

As for conformation, they are both extremely handsome horses--they rank among the best looking stallions currently standing in Kentucky.

[Fireslam]

LB, Id have to disagree with one point, in that Congrats' 3 grade 1 horses are all out of mares that are pure Kentucky breeding. No speedy Florida mares there.

[Hold Your Peace]

Congrats is going to really suffer in a few years from the numbers game.

2008 Crop - Congrats and Bernardini had almost the exact same number of foals.

2009 Crop - Congrats has 30 fewer foals than Bernardini.

2010 Crop - Congrats has 78 fewer foals than Bernardini.

It was just impossible in this economy to fill books of bubble stallions in Florida in early 2009 (it wasn't just Congrats) which is why he has just 28 foals in his 2010 crop versus over 100 for Bernardini who has recession proof backers who can keep his book full.

2011 Crop - Congrats should again have a good size crop as it looks like breeders really jumped on his heavily discounted 2010 stud fee ($4,500). His number of mares bred in 2010 and Bernardini's are pretty close. Bernardini's live foal percentage has been a good bit better than Congrats though so he'll probably still have 15 or 20 more foals in the 2011 crop than Congrats. Note that nothing should be read into fertility with this discrepancy in live foal percentages. Given Bernardini's high stud fee his mares are generally going to be boarded at top class facilities and some of the mares bred to Congrats for $4,500 in Florida ... not so much. And that can make a difference in whether or not the mare catches and whether or not she produces a live foal.

But as you can see in 2012 and 2013 Bernardini is likely to be far ahead of Congrats on the sire lists just as a function of numbers - Congrats big 2008 crop that has done so well will likely be near the ends of their careers in 2012 and 2013 and his small 2010 crop who will be in their primes in 2012 and 2013 when there are lots of juicy purses for 2yos and 3yos will really be up against it as there will be so many more of the Bernardini's out there.

That said - obviously Congrats is a much, much, much better VALUE.

[bdw0617]

the thing about Bernardini that gets me.. his 2 best... To honor and server and AZ warrior, both run like, they don't want to run as far as he did. They are nothing like their sire. They are more like their sires dam IMHO. Some sires do that, throw more like their dam then th Bem.. empire maker seems like that (throwing turf horses, rather than dirt horses).i Big red did that. I'm afraid, that alot of people will buy into B'dini thinking they will get a classic horse, when in reality they are getting a 1 turn 7F-1m type horse. nothing wrong with that per say, he throws high class 1turn miler type hores, but from early indications that is what i see form him.

[Retrospectiv]

Bernardini had 64 Grade 1 winners/producers in his first book of mares. If I were Darley I'd be breathing a sigh of relief that he produced something in his 1st crop from those mares!

Had I mare that matched well with him, I'd certainly be giving Congrats a try.

[LB]

Bernardini had 64 Grade 1 winners/producers in his first book of mares. If I were Darley I'd be breathing a sigh of relief that he produced something in his 1st crop from those mares!

Had I mare that matched well with him, I'd certainly be giving Congrats a try.

I don't think anyone who bred to Bernardini seriously expected him to be a top two year old sire. So the fact that his early runners did so well last year was just the icing on the cake, not something to be relieved about.

How well his first crop will ultimately do won't be determined for another 2 years.