Is Sea The Stars inbred or linebred

[laura22]

I find it difficult to understand the definition of these two methods!

[Bast]

I find it difficult to understand the definition of these two methods!

I would say neither because there are no repetitions within 5 generations. They are all going to start showing repetitions if you go back far enough, but the effects are diluted to the point of little impact.

[dublino]

Thats right no inbreeding within 5 generations, also linebreeding is a form of inbreeding.

[griff]

My father told me it was line-breeding when it worked and in-breeding when it did not

griff

[Toccet02]

could it be that Line breeding is two parents from the same sire line and inbreeding is when the same ancestor turns up in other pedigree positions?

[ASB]

He's not inbred but he is linebred to Nasrullah, War Admiral, and Native Dancer among a few others.

Interestingly enough, both his sire and dam are linebred to multiple bluehens and particularly linebred to bluehens within their own female family.

With Cape Cross you have Scapa Flow, Selene, Lady Juror and most notably Sister Sarah who is his 6th dam.

While Urban Sea's dam has multiple lines of Selene but again, linebreeding back to the female family with a double of German bluehen Aster, Urban Sea's 6th dam.

[laura22]

Thanks to all for replies so far.

[Mahubah]

Inbreeding in the Thoroughbred is generally considered to involve duplication of an ancestor on both the sire's and dam's side of the pedigree within 5 generations (though some authorities restrict the term to within 4 generations). Line breeding is duplication of an ancestor further back than the 5th generation at a frequency above that found in the general population, with the intent of trying to concentrate that ancestor's desirable genes through multiple lines of descent while hoping that less desirable genes have been weeded out in the process of selection over several generations. Line breeding very commonly involves more than one ancestor; for example, line breeding to *La Troienne will inevitably mean line breeding to War Admiral as well, since he was the sire of most of her important granddaughters. Likewise, line breeding to Mumtaz Mahal will almost always bring together *Nasrullah, *Royal Charger, and *Mahmoud, which means some degree of line breeding to Nearco (sire of *Nasrullah and *Royal Charger) and *Blenheim II (sire of *Mahmoud and broodmare sire of *Mahmoud) will be present as well.

Clear as mud?

The important thing to remember about inbreeding and line breeding is that neither will save a mating in which the immediate ancestry lacks quality. It doesn't matter if you duplicate Superhorse within four generations if the sire and dam of the prospective foal, and their sires and dams, were all worthless as runners and breeding stock; chances are that the foal is going to take after Mom and Dad and not after Great-great-grandpa, no matter how good he was. "To and through" is the operative principle: inbreed (or line breed) to good ancestors through good descendants if you want good results.

[Bast]

A careful study of how the King Ranch established their own strains of superior working QHs shows how inbreeding is useful when applied intelligently. (They used a number of TBs in their program, too.) Worth the time to study.

[xfactor fan]

These two horses/pedigrees seem to be good examples of both types of breeding.

High Time

http://www.pedigreequery.com/high+time

A brilliantly fast horse for 2-4 furlongs. Carried the Domino speed without the Domino stamina. Inbred to the max.


Big Brown

Line breeding

Northern Dancer via different sons on the top side of both mare and sire.

Dams on both sides are Damascus over different Round Table mares.


Big Brown's mating was planned to take into consideration the physical qualities of both stallion and mare, using cutting edge technology, and selecting for type.


Anyone else want to weigh in on examples of inbreeding vs linebreeding?

[cng]

This is line breeding (although stupid and inferior). Inbreeding is breeding sire to daughter or dam to son. Although everyone will have a different opinion, mine is the correct one. It has applied for my almost 70 years and I'm stickin' to it:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/double+magic
Grey Thoroughbred Stallion - $550
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/grd/2246472121.html

This cull is a prime example of what not to do in the breeding business. There should be a $550 bounty on his head instead of price tag. If you are going to be line breeding you want to use outstanding individuals. Obviously, Ol Hurt Feelings nor Careta Miss was not, since their combined total offspring couldn't earn over $5,000. I have never seen either but I doubt they had anything more to offer as individuals as their pedigree would suggest.

With inbreeding and line breeding you multiply the traits of the lines you are compounding - both GOOD & BAD. You also create small, cobby offspring (as seen here) that are usually lazy and stubborn. When you cross one of these line bred get with a totally unrelated cross you (SOMETIMES) get hybrid vigor - that is a racehorse. It doesn't happen just as often as it does. Thoroughbreds are not real good candidates for line breeding because race record and earnings are the prime factor in determining of "good". Most people in the thoroughbred business are lost when they have to determine quality the individual on his own merits without a catalog page. Normally I would prefer line breeding in mares, not studs, but they had better be lines that have flawless conformation, soundness and precocity.

[xfactor fan]

So do you consider breeding siblings as line breeding or inbreeding? Is High Time inbred or linebred?

[cng]

So do you consider breeding siblings as line breeding or inbreeding? Is High Time inbred or linebred?

Breeding siblings is inbreeding. High Time is moderately line bred Domino.

[Mahubah]

By standards commonly used among Thoroughbred breeders, High Time is extremely inbred. The terminology used by breeders within other breeds (particularly the Arabian) or dogs don't have the same meanings here; you cannot ignore the context in which the terms are used. When in Rome....

One thing the previous discussion should make clear is that inbreeding and line breeding are the same thing, only separated by degree. The point is that both approaches are trying to capture the desirable traits of a given ancestor(s) within the prospective foal by breeding descendants of that ancestor together.

BTW, High Time's problem wasn't necessarily stamina. He was a bleeder and had respiratory issues as well, and stopped abruptly in his races because of his physical problems. Not that he likely would have been a 12-furlong horse anyway; he was a speed influence at stud, like his sire before him. But six furlongs to a mile should have been within his scope had he been able to breathe normally.

[laura22]

ppl, thanks for all the answers. it is kind to reply