Finding currently standing stallions by family #

[Shammy Davis]

What is the easiest way to find currently standing stallions in NA by family number? Is there a site that lists stallions by family # or do you have to search by the broodmare on one of the heritage or reines boards?

[Shergar]

xx

[KBEquine]

Shergar, I'd love to see that list.

I look at stallions I like, type their dam or 2nd dam's name onto pedigreequery & look at progeny, which generally gives me the family number (unless you look on the day the database is being updated, in which case if you check back a day or so later, you get the info).

It is okay when looking for a few stallions, slow-going if you want a comprehensive list. (A long time ago, I started a sheet with family number information, but it is in the nature of 'notes to self' and not likely useful to anyone but me).

[Shergar]

xx

[Shammy Davis]

Shergar: Thank you. This is going to be very helpful to more than just me. It will be a concise and simple way of connecting and evaluating bloodlines, particularly when looking at tail-male and tail-female in a hypothetical or planned mating. Shergar, you are the best. I'm not a great believer in Bruce Lowe's thinking on families, but I think it is a wonderful research tool because we know that certain families are more productive than others and that aptitude can be evaluated from knowledge of the mares. Bill from WA uses the family lines in his Conduit Mare theory. It is easily understood and it is a wonderful tool. I highly recommend it.

I'm somewhat surprised that no one has done this before. Again, thank you.

[wgc517]

Are you willing to share?

[Shergar]

xx

[Tappiano]

Shergar do you want it in access? I can create one table that has the family numbers and then I can import the information you have, eve if it is in a .txt file and then it can grow over time if you want.

[brogers]

Why would you bother when we know some of them are incorrect?

I just had a lunch on Sunday with a geneticist from overseas who is doing a lot of work on mtDNA and he said that they sequenced 80 horses that were supposed to be from 11 different families according to their Bruce Lowe numbers and they all came from just 5 families according to their mtDNA haplotype.

Just start with the #1 family. There is a branch of that which is actually the #2 family...the errors go from there.

[Shergar]

xx

[Shammy Davis]

What Shergar is doing, for lack of a better term, is providing a cross reference tool. And thank goodness. The errors in the system, that brogers points too, are probably pre-dated enough as to not effect current comparisons of stallions and mares.

[Bill from WA]

Here's a partial list. PM me if you are interested in more. (Part of this didn't transfer properly. Tanerko is correct, but Commando transferred to the same line. It wasn't posted that way). I have a list of over 1800 stallions with family numbers, and conduit mare.

Bill

CONDUIT MARES OF SELECTED STALLIONS

STALLION
FAMILY
CONDUIT

Black Toney 10* Belgravia
Autoroute 10* Lady Colonist
Pete’s Sake 10* Lady Colonist
Salty Character 10* Lady Colonist
Whadjathink 10* Widgeon
American Chance 10a Court Dress
Bellamy Road 10a Court Dress
Charismatic 10a Court Dress
Deputy Minister 10a Court Dress
D’Wildcat 10a Court Dress
Gold Fever 10a Court Dress
Great Pyramid 10a Court Dress
Jackpot 10a Court Dress
Millennium Wind 10a Court Dress
Nosetothe 10a Court Dress
Out Of Place 10a Court Dress
Red River Gorge 10a Court Dress
Reparations 10a Court Dress
Riverman 10a Court Dress
Rock Of Gibraltar 10a Court Dress
Saarland 10a Court Dress
Kris S 10a Miss Tolka
Takin It Deep 10a Miss Tolka
Prince Rose 10c Bar The Way
Dontletthebigonego 10c Beldame
Lion Heart 10c Beldame
Elegant Fellow 10c Bellamia
Explicit 10c Bellamia
Run Away And Hide 10c Bellamia
Flying Victor 10c Bellamia
Sarava 10c Bellamia
Vice Regent 10c Bellamia
Disguise II 10c Conduit Sire
Baja Fire 10c Coy Maid
Chief Seattle 10c Oxeye
Arctic Prince 10c Pearl Of The Loch
Diazo 10c Pearl Of The Loch
Ready To Order 10c Pearl Of The Loch
Daufuskie Pirate 10d Blackaton
Tahoe City 10d Consuelo
Giant Asset 10d Green Pepper
Verbatim 10d Laomedia
Western Fame 10d Queen TII
Red 10e Queenie
Surachai 10e Queenie
Vieux Manoir 10e Queenie
Saintry 11* Gentlewoman
Commitisize 11* Gold
Freud 11* Tangle
Giant's Causeway 11* Tangle
Leroidesanimaux 11* Tangle
Roar Of The Tiger 11* Tangle
Tumblebrutus 11* Tangle
R. Steele 11* Tinkle
Acatenango 11a Nuneaton
Bartok 11a Nuneaton
Big Jewel 11a Queen Mother
Gibson County 11a Queen Mother
Quibu 11b Guayaba (ARG)
St Simon 11c Conduit Sire
Archer's Bay 11c Mi-Careme
Fullbridled 11c Mi-Careme
Naevus Star 11c Mi-Careme
Le Glorieux 11d Keltoum
Le Triton 11d Keltoum
Lowell 11d Keltoum
Lucratif 11d Keltoum
Prospero 11d Keltoum
Wind Whipper 11d Keltoum
Battle Line 11d Lady Daisy Cutter
More Light 11d Lady Daisy Cutter
Sharp End 11d Lady Daisy Cutter
Thunder Gulch 11d Lady Daisy Cutter
Five Star Day 11f Carmine
Gold Regent 11f Carmine
Marquetry 11f Carmine
Captain Red 11g Circee
Hatchet Man 11g Circee
Latent Heat 11g Circee
Stop The Music 11g Circee
Vision And Verse 11g Circee
Bold Hour 11g Summer Girl
Eight Thirty 11g Summer Girl
War Admiral 11g Summer Girl
Wekiva Springs 11g Summer Girl
Tanerko 12* Sympathetic Commando 12b Conduit Sire
In Case 12b Disparity
Halo's Image 12b Dora W
Montbrook 12b Dora W
Outofthebox 12b Dora W
Rationalexuberance 12b Dora W
Shot Of Gold 12b Dora W
Songandaprayer 12b Dora W
Sugar’s Saint 12b Dora W
Unbridled’s Image 12b Dora W
Concerto 12b Happy Kate
Flame Thrower 12b La Daine
Meandmyloveman 12b Lady McGee
Apollo 12b Mexilow
Labeeb 12b Miss Minnie
Corporate Report 12b Offensive
Cox's Ridge 12b Offensive
Victory Gallop 12b Offensive
City Place 12b Silk Maid
Political Force 12b Silk Maid
Secret Firm 12b Silk Maid
Your Eminence 12b Silk Maid
Rex Magna 12b Simper
Slewdledo 12b Sylvia Dunbar
Best Man 12c Conduit Sire
Expelled 12c Cross Roads
Roberto 12c Cross Roads
Undeniable 12c Cross Roads
Austinpower 12c Fruitful
Devil's Bag 12c Fruitful
Extra 12c Fruitful
Midway Magistrate 12c Fruitful
Mighty Forum 12c Fruitful
Military 12c Fruitful
Motto 12c Fruitful
Parade Ground 12c Fruitful
Rahy 12c Fruitful
Saint Ballado 12c Fruitful
Shakis 12c Fruitful
Sligo Bay 12c Fruitful
Storm Surge 12c Fruitful
Tricky Creek 12c Fruitful
Challedon 12c Outcome
Doc Gus 12c Outcome
Friend’s Lake 12d Albilla
Rainmaker 12d Albilla
La Rapido 12d Sacrifice
First Samurai 13* Helen Barbee
Housebuster 13* Helen Barbee
Efisio 13a Eageress
Biwa Hayahide 13a Elfin Revel
Biwa Takehide 13a Elfin Revel
Narita Brian 13a Elfin Revel
Sunday Break 13a Elfin Revel
Cayoke 13b Epitaph
Palace Dancer 13b Epitaph
Seattle Bound 13b Epitaph
Stanislavsky 13b Epitaph
Ten Centuries 13b Epitaph
Cat Thief 13b Miss Minnie
Claudius 13b Miss Minnie
Crafty C.T. 13b Miss Minnie
Gold Knuckles 13b Miss Minnie
Hernando 13b Miss Minnie
Isidor 13c Conduit Sire
Alymagic 13c Frizette
Artie Schiller 13c Frizette
Bahri 13c Frizette
Board Member 13c Frizette
Chopin 13c Frizette
Civilian 13c Frizette
Compelling Sound 13c Frizette
Courteous 13c Frizette
Daliapour 13c Frizette
Desert Fox 13c Frizette
Dixie Mon 13c Frizette
Djeddah 13c Frizette
Elusive Quality 13c Frizette
Forestry 13c Frizette
Free At Last 13c Frizette
Gold Saga 13c Frizette
Heart Of The Storm 13c Frizette
Just Typical 13c Frizette
Katowice 13c Frizette
Kilimanjaro 13c Frizette
Mach One 13c Frizette
Middlesex Drive 13c Frizette
Mister Jolie 13c Frizette
Momentum 13c Frizette
Mr Prospector 13c Frizette
Notional 13c Frizette
Patton 13c Frizette
Persian Turban 13c Frizette
Proud Dhabi 13c Frizette
Really Golden 13c Frizette
Regal Embers 13c Frizette
Rossini 13c Frizette
Seattle Fitz 13c Frizette
Seattle Slew 13c Frizette
Shecky Greene 13c Frizette
Slew Gin Fizz 13c Frizette
Southern Image 13c Frizette
The Green Monkey 13c Frizette
Toccet 13c Frizette
Tourbillon 13c Frizette
Trajectory 13c Frizette
Truly Met 13c Frizette
Wild Gold 13c Frizette
Yankee Victor 13c Frizette
Baron De Vaux 13c Hamburg Belle
Candy Ride 13c Jane Shore
Le Fabuleux 13c Jane Shore
Brahms 13d Mal Y Pense
Fashion Find 13d Mal Y Pense
Indy King 13d Mal Y Pense
Pin Stripe 13d Mal Y Pense
Rubiyat 13d Mal Y Pense
Pharos 13e Anchora
Doug Fir 13e Celone
Devine Light 13e Celone
Elhayq 13e Celone
Haasil 13e Celone
Perfect Mandate 13e Celone
Performing Magic 13e Celone
Ultimus 14* Conduit Sire
Canaan Land 14a Banorella
Limehouse 14a Banorella
Lenado Road 14a Chaffaway
Phoneforchampagne 14a Chaffaway
Party Airs 14a Chaffaway
Artax 14a Cyclamen
Forest Grove 14a Cyclamen
Charlottesville 14a Simone
Double Jay 14a Grand Shot
Mr Trieste 14a Fouilleopo
Polynesian 14a Fouilleopo
Spensive 14a Fouilleopo
Vertex 14a Laikipia
Hello Mister 14a Tit For Tat
Resplendent Cee 14a Tit For Tat
Alex’s Pal 14a Addenda
Our New Recruit 14b Addenda
Suave Prospect 14b Addenda
Successful Appeal 14b Addenda
Bagdad 14b Miranda
Comet Shine 14b Miranda
Douglas Fir 14b Miranda
Littleexpectations 14b Miranda
Purge 14b Miranda
Valid Expectations 14b Miranda
Valid Wager 14b Miranda
Knights Choice 14b Veneration
Act Of Duty 14c Pretty Polly
Baquero 14c Pretty Polly
Brigadier Gerard 14c Pretty Polly
Bring The Heat 14c Pretty Polly
Cape Canaveral 14c Pretty Polly
Cape Cross 14c Pretty Polly
Cape Town 14c Pretty Polly
Cisco Road 14c Pretty Polly
Cobra King 14c Pretty Polly
Dumaani 14c Pretty Polly
Great Nephew 14c Pretty Polly
Heavenly Search 14c Pretty Polly
Invasor 14c Pretty Polly
Joey Franco 14c Pretty Polly
Kaldounevees 14c Pretty Polly
Luthier 14c Pretty Polly
Madraar 14c Pretty Polly
Nearctic 14c Pretty Polly
New Trieste 14c Pretty Polly
Northern Afleet 14c Pretty Polly
Old Trieste 14c Pretty Polly
Race For Glory 14c Pretty Polly
Shawaf 14c Pretty Polly
Stonesider 14c Pretty Polly
Swain 14c Pretty Polly
Taste of Paradise 14c Pretty Polly
Unbridled Energy 14c Pretty Polly
Vienna 14c Pretty Polly
St Amant 14e Conduit Sire
Memo 14f Flitaway
Nawel 14f Flitaway
Cosmic Bomb 14f Honora
Crafty Friend 14f Honora
Ingot’s Ruler 14f Honora
Kandaly 14f Honora
Kanjinsky 14f Honora
Kodiak Kowboy 14f Honora
Majesterian 14f Honora
Petersburg 14f Honora
Prince John 14f Honora
Quinton’s Gold 14f Honora
Skip Away 14f Honora
Unbridled Desire 14f Honora
Commander In Chief 14f Princess Sterling
Old Deuteronomy 14f Princess Sterling
Rainbow Quest 14f Princess Sterling

[brogers]

What Shergar is doing, for lack of a better term, is providing a cross reference tool. And thank goodness. The errors in the system, that brogers points too, are probably pre-dated enough as to not effect current comparisons of stallions and mares.

I am not sure how 'pre dated' an error in 1980 is but that is the most recent one that was found in the small sample that Hill did in 2002 and Harrison (private correspondence) has found quite a few in the 1970's.

[brogers]

I am well aware of the problems in the GSB.

Has that study you referenced been published? I would like a look at it.
One of the few articles on this subject that I have read is the study done at Trinity College in 2002. It was posted on the TB Heritage website.

Regarding that branch of family #1 that is really family #2which branch is it?
With that being said, this is for my personal use and a few others here on the board that have expressed an interest in it. I'm quite certain we will take it for what it's worth.

Shergar

Shergar,

Unfortunately we are using mtDNA in ongoing research so it is not published. There are a couple of unpublished papers by other scientists that have the number of families as low as 14 to 15 (depending if you look at native American and Australian families), although the top 20 by Bruce Lowe numbers is a lot less than that. Family 2 is actually also 7,8,16, 17 and 22 as an example.

Steve Harrison from Thoroughbred Genetics is coming to talk at the Pedigree & Genetics Conference in Lexington in early September about the subject and he has done plenty of work on mtDNA.

[Shammy Davis]

brogers wrote:

I am not sure how 'pre dated' an error in 1980 is but that is the most recent one that was found in the small sample that Hill did in 2002 and Harrison (private correspondence) has found quite a few in the 1970's.

Listen, I am going to be the last person in the world to put my knowledge on the subject of genetics and breeding up against yours. Genetic science is advancing at light speed and I'm still trying to figure out Mendel and the "pea." I've read Varola's two books each at least ten times over and I still find sections I don't understand. When I originated this thread I was simply looking for stallion family #'s to use as reference. That's all. There is no doubt in my mind that Shergar completely understood that and was kind enough to begin compiling it. The last time I looked at the posts, that's what Shergar told you. This thread was not meant to parallel rocket or genetic science. It was meant to find a cross reference. I've enjoyed and learned a great deal reading some of your comments on this and other websites. You apparently have a great wealth of knowledge, but if you want to waste time making this thread more than its original intention, have at it.

Best wishes.