lifetime breeding rights

[NORTHSTAR1]

most stallions fail ------the newest gimmick to get a newby off the ground is "pay me two years and i will give you lifetime breeding rights " since most fail it will be interesting to see how far down the fee will be driven as buyers compete with one another to unload their seasons--- assuming they are sellable ----in an effort to recover their initial two season outlay -and "lifetime" ? what a pig in a poke that is ----who is going to keep a loser stud around for his lifetime to live up to that end of the deal.?

[Tappiano]

Or they just sell them and move them to a regional market in their third year.

[LB]

most stallions fail ------the newest gimmick to get a newby off the ground is "pay me two years and i will give you lifetime breeding rights " since most fail it will be interesting to see how far down the fee will be driven as buyers compete with one another to unload their seasons--- assuming they are sellable ----in an effort to recover their initial two season outlay -and "lifetime" ? what a pig in a poke that is ----who is going to keep a loser stud around for his lifetime to live up to that end of the deal.?

You call it a gimmick, I think it's a great idea. Lots of breeders enjoy trying new stallions anyway--especially in today's breeding climate where good, proven, horses are priced beyond the reach of many. Better to take a gamble on a new horse you really like than to breed to a so-so proven sire because his price is what you can afford.

Breeding two mares is hardly an onerous propostion. Sure most new stallions fail but if "yours" hits, wow. If not, well you breed two mares and hopefully you got two nice foals. Maybe they'll run and do well. Just because a stallion is deemed a failure by the market doesn't mean he hasn't produced any runners. Even Buddha--the poster boy for failure at stud by almost anyone's standards--sired a few good horses.

If the stallion doesn't turn out to be what you'd hoped, move on. Just because you have a lifetime breeding right doesn't mean you have to use it.

[Crystal]

lifetime breeding right.. perhaps that is different than buying into a syndication "share" of a stallion???

A share holder can do what they want with their seasons so I imagine a person with a LBR would have the same option..

It's a gimmick to me..

[Barcaldine]

I've participated in several of these "gimmicks" with Spendthrift and Winstar Farms and am quite happy. I see them as creative attempts by stallion owners to encourage smaller breeders to send good mares to their young stallions. While I am very selective about the stallions I choose I appreciate the willingness of Mr. Hughes and Mr. Troutt to "share their upside."

If the stallions fail, which most do, it's after I've sold three or four yearlings by them, so I've more than recouped my investment. If they succeed, I own a lifetime breeding right with no more stud fees due. What if Seth Hancock had offered this deal on DANZIG---another promising young horse that didnt appeal to the upper tier? The early breeders who supported him---and made him a success---had to buy costly shares or pay high stud fees if they wanted to breed back to him after his first crop ran. These new programs help the little guys gain long-term access to stallions for the price of one or two annual seasons.

I think they are a dynamic idea.

[stlouiskid]

I bred a mare to Hold Me Back this year. For $6,000 I get a lifetime breeding right. This to a stunning looking stallion who won the Lanes End and ran 2nd in the Travers. He covered 100 approved mares his first year, including 30 of Win Star's own mares. I thought it was a fantastic deal, with a ton of upside and little risk. I heard they opened it up to 20 more for this spring and it sold out in one day.

[oleos93]

I don't think any stallion can fail, I think the owners may fail marketing or getting a stallions progeny to the track. In some cases alot of TB stallions sire great jumpers etc etc. Does not mean they fail. Someone just has not found what they are good at or what their get is good at.

There are plenty of sires that never raced. If I remember correctly Katowice never raced but has produced alot of runners. He comes to mind as I use to own a filly out of him.

If there is someone out there willing to take a chance on a stallion they like, why not. I hate the sayings out there "fasted this and that in the world" No one knows that for sure. Alot of TB's never even get registered and PLANS FAIL, but I don't think the stallion does. Life just goes that way sometimes for people.

My stud trained in Ohio and got hurt just before his first race. If I could find someone to take on a 10 yr old maiden I would send him back. I had the trainers telling me he would runs stakes he was that good. But I cannot sell that "IF". So I keep his babies and I myself will get them going and to the track and hopefully prove him as a stallion. But even if I don't these babies will be good at something.

[Tappiano]

It's kind of the same thing... I was offered a free breedback to Nobiz for 2012 (my 2010 season was free too) and in 2011 I could have gotten 50% off a specific stallion with a free breeding for any mare for 2012 so while they are not share the upside, there are deals available to the unproven sires. If my mare had not had foaling complications I would have jumped on that deal last year. Instead I have signed a contract to send her to a stallion I love enough to turn down lower priced or free options.

[Maureen]

This is what is going on with Victor's Cry up here in Ontario. $500 good faith deposit, limited number of mares, produce one live foal in 2013, pay $6500 stud fee, and then rebreed for free in 2013, and then the free breeding right starts in 2014, no expenses for advertising or stallion care.

[Joltman]

I've participated in several of these "gimmicks" with Spendthrift and Winstar Farms and am quite happy. I see them as creative attempts by stallion owners to encourage smaller breeders to send good mares to their young stallions. While I am very selective about the stallions I choose I appreciate the willingness of Mr. Hughes and Mr. Troutt to "share their upside."

If the stallions fail, which most do, it's after I've sold three or four yearlings by them, so I've more than recouped my investment. If they succeed, I own a lifetime breeding right with no more stud fees due. What if Seth Hancock had offered this deal on DANZIG---another promising young horse that didnt appeal to the upper tier? The early breeders who supported him---and made him a success---had to buy costly shares or pay high stud fees if they wanted to breed back to him after his first crop ran. These new programs help the little guys gain long-term access to stallions for the price of one or two annual seasons.

I think they are a dynamic idea.

I concur. It's a classic 'long shot play'. If yours comes through you make big bucks.

jm