New Sires that are going to succeed

ct2346 · Postby **ct2346** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Just back from KEENOV and spent a good amount of time looking at the weanlings. Went into it without any pre-conceived notions but came out of it with two young sires that are really going to have a good shot at making it. Both had uniformly nice looking weanlings without exception. Granted the sampling was only 8 or 9 individuals, but when almost every one is impressive there is something there. Will definitely consider as potential matches for breeding own mares. The two were Discreetly Mine and Majesticperfection. very impressed.

LB · Postby LB » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:10 am

Interesting. I also liked the Majesticperfections that I saw (I missed seeing the Discreetly Mines). In addition I was impressed with the Blames and the Super Savers.

griff · Postby **griff** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:32 pm

looking at weanlings, in my opinion, is a piss porr way to evaluate stallions.

griff

ct2346 · Postby **ct2346** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:48 pm

griff wrote:looking at weanlings, in my opinion, is a piss porr way to evaluate stallions.

griff

Until their runners hit the track, I know of no better way...

I understand the dangers (Buddha) but its also possible to count on the not so good production (Corinthian). If you are breeding to sell and you're in years 1-4, you have to look at the babies....

vallygirl927 · Postby **vallygirl927** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:38 pm

I agree, all the Majesticperfections looked great. Ready's Images are all nice given the book of mares he recieved at a 5K stud fee. I bought one of his babies yesterday and he's a really nice looking colt.

dublino · Postby **dublino** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:47 am

Concord Point, Line of David, Summer Bird, Bodemeister

Barcaldine · Postby **Barcaldine** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:44 pm

I have weanlings by Readys Image and Concord Point. They impress everyone who looks at them. Big, scopey and correct, with nice temperaments, too. Very happy with them and going back for more.

stlouiskid · Postby **stlouiskid** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Looking at weanlings and yearlings of new sires will help you a great deal in telling how they will perform in the sales ring, which are beauty contests.
As far as determining how well they will perform on the racetrack, I find it next to meaningless. Go to Churchill Downs for a week and watch the horses you see coming out of the winners circle. You will see any kind of horse, crooked legged, too small, too big, light boned, you name it.
I am continuallly amazed how normally brilliant business oriented folks continue to spend millions of bucks on , they look pretty.
The main reason that freshman sires don't sell that well anymore is some people have figured out you can't go by looks. Pedigree and proven sires are the name of the game. And good vet reports. Conformation is highly overrated.

LB · Postby LB » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:42 pm

stlouiskid wrote:Looking at weanlings and yearlings of new sires will help you a great deal in telling how they will perform in the sales ring, which are beauty contests.
As far as determining how well they will perform on the racetrack, I find it next to meaningless. Go to Churchill Downs for a week and watch the horses you see coming out of the winners circle. You will see any kind of horse, crooked legged, too small, too big, light boned, you name it.
I am continuallly amazed how normally brilliant business oriented folks continue to spend millions of bucks on , they look pretty.
The main reason that freshman sires don't sell that well anymore is some people have figured out you can't go by looks. Pedigree and proven sires are the name of the game. And good vet reports. Conformation is highly overrated.

Looking at weanlings and yearlings can tell you a lot about the athleticism and the temperaments that a new sire is producing. I think that's valuable information. It doesn't guarantee that they'll run, but the offspring of proven sires don't come with guarantees either.

Vet reports are what I think is highly overrated.

ct2346 · Postby **ct2346** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 am

stlouiskid wrote:Looking at weanlings and yearlings of new sires will help you a great deal in telling how they will perform in the sales ring, which are beauty contests.
As far as determining how well they will perform on the racetrack, I find it next to meaningless. Go to Churchill Downs for a week and watch the horses you see coming out of the winners circle. You will see any kind of horse, crooked legged, too small, too big, light boned, you name it.
I am continuallly amazed how normally brilliant business oriented folks continue to spend millions of bucks on , they look pretty.
The main reason that freshman sires don't sell that well anymore is some people have figured out you can't go by looks. Pedigree and proven sires are the name of the game. And good vet reports. Conformation is highly overrated.

With these constraints there would be no yearling or weanling sales at all. Or perhaps the secret lies in the advice - just find a crooked yearling by a successful sire - but be sure he/she has a nice page and you'll be fine. Ummm...

As far as vet reports - as LB said, can't trust them. I actually saw two different vet reports on the same weanling last week...each saying very different things. I tended to believe the one with the extra ink.

LB · Postby LB » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:35 am

ct2346 wrote:As far as vet reports - as LB said, can't trust them. I actually saw two different vet reports on the same weanling last week...each saying very different things. I tended to believe the one with the extra ink.

I really hope you reported that to Keeneland.

Actually I wasn't saying that I don't trust vet reports. What I meant is that there are too many unimportant issues that get put on the reports that are either outgrown or meaningless by the time a horse races. Depending too heavily on vet reports does nothing but encourage buyers to turn down a lot of good horses.

stlouiskid · Postby **stlouiskid** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:51 am

As far as vet reports, they can be misleading, and they are really overblowing things at the sales now. But I would buy a yearling with conformation faults like offset knees, or over at the knee, or long pasterns, but with no chips or ocd's, way ahead of one that had say chips in an ankle or ocd's in their stifles, but perfect conformation.
My point is that trying to determine how a sires first crop is going to run by watching them in a sales ring, to me is highly inaccurate. Buyers at the sales have the "Goldilocks syndrome". Can't be too big or too small, must be just right. It's fools gold.
Guys like Ken McPeek are having great success buying yearlings with faults, who have great pedigrees. They can be bought for 5 figures instead of six. They look for fluid movement and class. Which comes from the dam most of the time anyway. Many outrun the beauty contest winners hands down.

Barcaldine · Postby **Barcaldine** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:07 am

MUNNINGS is another future star, IMO. He's about as good a looking horse as I've seen, and is very correct. His first foals sold well. I bred four mares to him this year, and all conceived, most on one cover. Sending four more in 2013.

dublino · Postby **dublino** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:15 am

Barcaldine wrote:MUNNINGS is another future star, IMO. He's about as good a looking horse as I've seen, and is very correct. His first foals sold well. I bred four mares to him this year, and all conceived, most on one cover. Sending four more in 2013.

Are you breeding to sell or race Barc?

Zahrah · Postby **Zahrah** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:33 am

Barcaldine wrote:MUNNINGS is another future star, IMO. He's about as good a looking horse as I've seen, and is very correct. His first foals sold well. I bred four mares to him this year, and all conceived, most on one cover. Sending four more in 2013.

I hope so. I just bought the Smarty Jones daughter of La Gueriere, so could use Munnings hitting big. It's a GREAT looking family, even if many from it lack some leg as a rule.