Pedigree Query

This year the Derby field includes 3 colts each for Uncle Mo (Nyquist, Outwork, Mo Tom) and Tapit (Creator, Lani, Mohayman) with Giants Causeway represented by two starters (Brody's Cause & Destin).

Does anyone remember a previous Derby where almost half the field was the progeny of only 3 stallions?

Bold Ruler had some Derby horses and at least one winner (Secretariat). Don't know what the most he had in one year.

During the 1970's, his sire line dominated with winners like Secretariat, Bold Forbes, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, Foolish Pleasure, and I think that there was one or two more.

Shawklit Won wrote:Bold Ruler had some Derby horses and at least one winner (Secretariat). Don't know what the most he had in one year.

During the 1970's, his sire line dominated with winners like Secretariat, Bold Forbes, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, Foolish Pleasure, and I think that there was one or two more.

Dust Commander and Cannonade were the other two Bold Ruler line Kentucky Derby winners during the 1970's, I think. That would make 7 of the 10 Kentucky Derby winners from the Bold Ruler sire line during the 1970's.

Bold Ruler was indeed the dominant sire for quite some time, but did he ever have 3 starters in the same Derby?

Interesting question to research....

OK since no one else began any research on this, I just went through the last 20 years (through the 1996 Derby) - since then only in 2002 were there 3 horses in the Derby field by the same sire.....that sire was Gone West!

Gone West starters were 2nd place finisher Proud Citizen, 6th place Came Home and 12th place Castle Gandolfo.

Will do more research later....unless of course someone else beats me to it

I suspect that Mr. Prospector should have a lot of Derby entries. After all, Mr. P. sired well over 1000 horses, getting mostly the cream of the crop of mares, especially when he was at Claiborne. Bold Ruler sired less than 4oo, and look how well he did.

If you look for horses sired by Mr. P. in KD"s, I would not be surprised if you find 3 in at least one of them.

I have researched Derby fields back to 1957 and can say having 3 starters in the same Derby is a remarkable achievement! Below are the few times it has occurred:

2016
Tapit - Creator, Lani, Mohayman
Uncle Mo - Mo Tom, Nyquist, Outwork

2002 winner War Emblem
Gone West - 2nd Proud Citizen, 6th Came Home, 12th Castle Gandolfo

1984 winner Swale
Cox's Ridge - 6th Pine Circle, 8th Life's Magic, 16th Vanlandingham

1974 winner Cannonade
Damascus - 8th Judger, 18th Accipiter, 19th Gold And Myrrh

1959 winner Tomy Lee
Royal Charger - 4th Royal Orbit, 6th Finnegan, 10th Rico Tesio

Granted the larger books bred by today's top stallions may make this accomplishment easier, but there seems to be no coinciding increase in the frequency of this occurrence as stallion books increased. Truly a remarkable accomplishment by any stallion of any era!

Good research job!

da hossman wrote:I have researched Derby fields back to 1957 and can say having 3 starters in the same Derby is a remarkable achievement! Below are the few times it has occurred:

2016
Tapit - Creator, Lani, Mohayman
Uncle Mo - Mo Tom, Nyquist, Outwork

2002 winner War Emblem
Gone West - 2nd Proud Citizen, 6th Came Home, 12th Castle Gandolfo

1984 winner Swale
Cox's Ridge - 6th Pine Circle, 8th Life's Magic, 16th Vanlandingham

1974 winner Cannonade
Damascus - 8th Judger, 18th Accipiter, 19th Gold And Myrrh

1959 winner Tomy Lee
Royal Charger - 4th Royal Orbit, 6th Finnegan, 10th Rico Tesio

Granted the larger books bred by today's top stallions may make this accomplishment easier, but there seems to be no coinciding increase in the frequency of this occurrence as stallion books increased. Truly a remarkable accomplishment by any stallion of any era!

The thing about Mr. Prospector is that he did not have large books of mares. Mr. P. lived a long time and stayed at stud much longer than usual. Mr. Prospector's books were usually about 50 mares, but they were the best of mares and he stayed at stud until he was about 28 or 29.

Uncle Mo - unbelievable sire. If he's under $300k next year I would be a stunned. Even the Oaks and the Derby undercard stakes had sons and daughters. First crop? Derby winner, undefeated and two other runners.

amazing

jm

Joltman wrote:Uncle Mo - unbelievable sire. If he's under $300k next year I would be a stunned. Even the Oaks and the Derby undercard stakes had sons and daughters. First crop? Derby winner, undefeated and two other runners.

amazing

jm

I was thinking the very same thing. Unbelievable first crop.

Well yes but Uncle Mo had 167 live foals from 211 mares covered which was an incredible first year. Talk about spreading a lot of bread on the water. Tapit had 109 live foals from 134 covers. Giant's Causeway had 128 live foals from 166 mares covered. Those are pretty big pools.

Shawklit Won - I understand how great a sire Mr. Prospector was and how huge his influence is today. However he was a speed sire and did not have many that even made the Derby field. His lower number of Derby starters is more reflective of his speed oriented offspring rather than his foal crop size.

Regarding the foal crop size issue, I don't believe Cox's Ridge (3 starters in 1984), Damascus (3 starters in 1974) or Royal Charger (3 starters in 1959) had larger foal crops than Mr. Prospector. It is simply the propensity for siring a 2 turn horse and the fortunate coincidence of several top performers in the same crop.

I believe the number of Uncle Mo starters in his first crop evidence that he is a truly remarkable sire, already on par with Tapit and War Front, the best horses at stud in the USA.

da hossman wrote:Shawklit Won - I understand how great a sire Mr. Prospector was and how huge his influence is today. However he was a speed sire and did not have many that even made the Derby field. His lower number of Derby starters is more reflective of his speed oriented offspring rather than his foal crop size.

Regarding the foal crop size issue, I don't believe Cox's Ridge (3 starters in 1984), Damascus (3 starters in 1974) or Royal Charger (3 starters in 1959) had larger foal crops than Mr. Prospector. It is simply the propensity for siring a 2 turn horse and the fortunate coincidence of several top performers in the same crop.

I believe the number of Uncle Mo starters in his first crop evidence that he is a truly remarkable sire, already on par with Tapit and War Front, the best horses at stud in the USA.

Yes, it looks like Uncle Mo is the next big stallion. He is having an amazing year.

It turns out that Uncle Mo has FOUR sons in the Preakness.