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 Post subject: Long neck?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:01 am 
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Sort of a strange question, but I'm looking for a KY based stallion that has a long neck. Anybody know or suggest somebody?

I've got one mare in the group who is a well bred Smart Strike mare, and had some moderate success on the race track. I believe what held her back from racing at a higher level is a short neck, which limited her biomechanical ability to race far, or fast and far. After seeing and racing her first foal it felt even more pronounced in the foal. So, I'm looking to attempt to correct this by thinking it about or adding it to the list of considerations when selecting a stallion.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:58 pm 
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I feel like Bellamy Road is the stallion I always associate with a long neck, but his confo picture here doesn't make that obvious.
Don't consider Justin Phillip...short almost ewe neck...although he did very well...

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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:17 am 
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Why don't you call some of the farms and ask them which stallions will pass that on? They are very honest in telling you what type of mares work best and what you are likely to get.

I never picked a stallion based on how long or short their neck was (my mare has a long one) but focused on how balanced they were. I eliminated stallions who were too big (like most of the Tiznow's) because I don't need size added so to speak. The larger stallions should have a longer neck, but if your mare is 15.2 and you breed to 16.3 you still might get 15.2.

Toccet - Bellamy is a beast. He's huge.


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Isn't Bellamy Road in New York?

I was able to locate a conformation pic of Smart Strike in an old BH Stallion Register on my shelf - he had a pretty short neck. Maybe look for a stallion that is Really Stamping his offspring and has a longer neck?

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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:49 pm 
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All great ideas, and appreciated.

This mare is small. She's very well bred, but yeah, 15.3. Maybe. Because she's on the small side, and none of her three foals have the size that sells well commercially, I've put her to work trying to make race babies -- at least unitl I can get one to blacktype! Anyway, I acquired her thinking there had to be some ability to throw a race horse, so have been really working on not only pedigree but conformation. I think she very much resembles Smart Strike, even in the face. The neck is part of that Smart Strike I'm sure, and I didn't give it too much thought orginially.

Her first foal won twice at three, but isn't likely to ever get out of claiming ranks, unless she runs 4F. She was even smaller than mom, and the short neck seemed accentuated even further. I really thought watching this first foal run that her neck was holding her back -- it just seemed to create an inneffient stride. So, I've been paying more attention to it now.

I did exactly what you described with the second mating Madelyn -- went to the Dixie Union family and Overanlayze simply based on how those two lines have done. This mating has produced a bit better result with a better balanced yearling. But still a smaller horse than I'd ever want to sell -- and there is a lot to Overanalyze, he's a decent sized dude. And who knows if she'll run?! Next mating I went with a Tiznow line to really work on getting some more size -- to no avail. So, she is stamping them for size. Which I don't mind at all for racing, I just want a very well balanced baby.

So, that's a little more background. I can certainly do a better job of asking farms what they think, especially if I've got a couple that we can make a package with. But thought perhaps I could generate a few good ideas here that I could more proactively point towards.

Thanks again for suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:40 am 
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Have you thought about one of the Unbridled's Song sons? They have those long necks and long, tubular bodies as well as tons of leg and bone. Most of them look exactly alike. Even though Danzig sons x Smart Strike are a good cross (Lookin at Lucky is one example) you may get small again.

If you're breeding to race what does WinStar say about Take Charge Indy's foals? I do think you'll get a runner by breeding to him and his half brother Will Take Charge is even bigger than he is so there's size in that family. I am just not sure either will be siring those early and fast two year olds the commercial market demands.


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:32 am 
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Bred her to Graydar this year on exactly the same thought! But it was May, she didn't settle and elected not to cover again. So she's open right now. Danzig is her broodmare sire, so that is a big piece of the size issue. Guess I'm giving 20% of the story every time I reply! Sorry.

Had a Take Charge Indy foal from another mare last year and I liked the foal, but foal was a little smaller and stockier than I expected. Baby didn't sell all that well, right around break even, but most of them aren't setting the sale world on fire. I might consider him again though - have to expect that stud fee is going to be getting more economical if you feel good about making a race baby. He's a big guy himself, a lot of him, and I guess from memory he might be considered to have a long neck. And this mare is very correct up front, so we can deal with some issues he has. Might be one to talk to Winstar about.


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:35 am 
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madelyn wrote:
Isn't Bellamy Road in New York?

I was able to locate a conformation pic of Smart Strike in an old BH Stallion Register on my shelf - he had a pretty short neck. Maybe look for a stallion that is Really Stamping his offspring and has a longer neck?


Yes he moved to NY this year; my apologies--meant to recommend a KY stallion as asked.

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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:46 am 
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What also comes to mind for me was the long lean light build of Better Talk Now . . . and he ran long, and for a long time, at a high level. Obviously he's a gelding; his sire is in South America and the dam has produced only a stallion that's in Russia . . . but maybe someone who understands genetics better than I could look at that female family or the cross . . . just throwing it out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:41 am 
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jeff9061 wrote:
Bred her to Graydar this year on exactly the same thought! But it was May, she didn't settle and elected not to cover again. So she's open right now. Danzig is her broodmare sire, so that is a big piece of the size issue. Guess I'm giving 20% of the story every time I reply! Sorry.

Had a Take Charge Indy foal from another mare last year and I liked the foal, but foal was a little smaller and stockier than I expected. Baby didn't sell all that well, right around break even, but most of them aren't setting the sale world on fire. I might consider him again though - have to expect that stud fee is going to be getting more economical if you feel good about making a race baby. He's a big guy himself, a lot of him, and I guess from memory he might be considered to have a long neck. And this mare is very correct up front, so we can deal with some issues he has. Might be one to talk to Winstar about.


That's how you eventually get to where you want to go :lol: It was a good choice and I hope you get an even better deal to try next year because you'll have some idea what the people down in FL are thinking as they start to prepare for the two year olds in training sale.

And not all Danzig's are small, Hard Spun is 16.3 and I think so is his son Wicked Strong. I have a two year old Langfuhr who is 2 x 4 to him and he's right about 16 hands now at age 2 so he didn't get the small "gene" and he also didn't get the bad knee gene either that some of them have. Sounds like since your mare is correct up front she didn't get that "gene" either :D


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:28 pm 
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If your mare is who I think she might be, then yes, she's extremely nicely bred.

Again, assuming your mare is who I think she is....

Take Charge Indy is extremely well-bred and on paper he suits her well, but going by his picture he has the dark side of Deputy Minister coming out...kind of a squashed-looking front end (look at Paynter for another example) and I'm not sure he would be suitable if you're looking to add more length of rein. The Touch Gold branch of Deputy Minister takes more after his dam in looks (dye him grey and you have With Approval) and passes that along. Commissioner is AP Indy over a Touch Gold mare, although he was rather dour on the track and you risk getting one who is to slow to sprint and too short-winded to stay with him.

The El Prado line might be one to consider. Both Warrior's Reward and Artie Schiller get runners, they're in your budget, and that line tends to run well for a while. They're both milers, which would stretch out your mare without losing the speed she has.

Liaison and Twirling Candy may also work.


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 Post subject: Re: Long neck?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:57 am 
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Toccet02 wrote:
I feel like Bellamy Road is the stallion I always associate with a long neck, but his confo picture here doesn't make that obvious.
Don't consider Justin Phillip...short almost ewe neck...although he did very well...


I think it was Bianconi I was thinking of, that stallion with the long neck, but he's exported AND dead, how's that for helpful?
But I am watching KeeSep and just saw a colt go by by Justin Phillip out of a Bianconi mare, who by George had some neck and lean balance, and he went for 14K when others this late are going for 4K or less. Again, genetics guys please weigh in. Too much Danzig for your mare if going that route?

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