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 Post subject: More boys leaving KY...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:40 am 
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So Medal Count and Danza head to the buckeye state, along with Itsmyluckyday. Awesome Patriot leaves Ohio to head to Chile - maybe to help replace one of the four that were butchered there. For the past several years, the stallion population in Ohio has been steadily growing and increasing in quality. Not so much for the mares though. To carry the thought further, in 2018 in Ohio 353 mares were bred to 53 stallions while in KY, 17,448 mares were bred to 242 stallions. Statistically, an Ohio stallion might hope to get 6 mares while in KY, each lucky boy would see 72 mares. Ohio does have a better rate of production from cover though - I wonder if this has to do with the KY juggernaut farms possibly over-reporting their covers so they can splash out that so-and-so covered hundreds of mares in first couple of seasons and advertise the heck out of that. Hopefully if that is the case the $35 per mare fee the JC now wants for KY covers might abate that a bit.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:05 am 
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It would be an interesting exercise for some geek to run all the numbers of stallions, mares bred, live foals, and state bred fund incentives to ferret out the market inefficiencies - and ways to figure out where best to breed. Griff who used to post here used to work this sort of angle where you can

-stallion from state 1 (eligible for sire races)
- season bought in an auction from a statebred association makes it eligible for some special stakes
- mare foals in another state
- some states (like Va) will 'certify' making you eligible to run in their state-bred races.

In some of these cases, the awards go to breeders, some to owners.

Certainly worth looking into places like Ohio, WV and Florida where these opportunities lie. Some time ago I thought it could be a nice little business to own a farm on the ar western side of WV to have mares drop foals as WV breds but still able to breed back to Ky stallions. The WV breds are usually sired by WV sires, and the quality save for a a few is not great - could do well with speed sires like Macleans Music perhaps. Also, the costs of board and vet care are much more reasonable.

blessed holidays to all...

jm

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:21 am 
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I've been doing a lot of analysis on my little area (KT OH IN) and it is interesting to watch. The sired races in Indiana are more numerous because their program is more established. Both IN and OH have breeder's awards and stallion awards. Indiana is moving in the direction of New York where at least half the race card will be for statebreds next year. Ohio might get there if they get the numbers. There are too many stallions just now in Ohio for the number of mares. Indiana is moving that way too. It's all economics. People want to collect the stud fees and pay for one horse. No one seems to want to pony up for the mares. The awards are excellent in both states.

Kentucky has the KBIF which keeps getting its feet knocked out as they keep dropping what they will pay and I have quit nominating for it. The KTDF on the other hand is really stepping up its game and its participation everywhere in KY except Keeneland. But KY with 17,000 or so mares bred each year doesn't feel the need while Indiana with 650 or so mares and Ohio with 350 or so mares really need the program.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Madelyn - Do you know offhand what the residency requirements are for mares in the given states near you? Some allow a mare to foal in the state with minimal residency, and others require an extended stay.

Nice to hear about the state bred opportunities in IN. WV really has made it worthwhile to have a WV bred, running cheaper but lots of opportunities to cash checks.

jm

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Indiana allows a mare to arrive before foaling and have her foal be Indiana bred provided she is bred back to an Indiana stallion. That gets problematic since she has to return to foal out the Indiana sired foal and the cycle starts over again. The foal is still an Indiana bred even if the mare does not get in foal to the Indiana stallion provided the mare is left open. The rules are still evolving. A year or so ago they added a section covering mares bought at sales. You could buy a mare in foal in Jan or Feb in KY ship to Indiana and that foal is an Indiana bred provided the mare ships from the sale grounds to a farm in Indiana and stays there until foaling. Otherwise, the mare has to be in Indiana by Aug 1 of the year bred and the foal is Indiana bred with no strings attached.

Ohio has a pretty long residency requirement and not many other ways.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:44 am 
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madelyn wrote:
- I wonder if this has to do with the KY juggernaut farms possibly over-reporting their covers so they can splash out that so-and-so covered hundreds of mares in first couple of seasons and advertise the heck out of that. Hopefully if that is the case the $35 per mare fee the JC now wants for KY covers might abate that a bit.


You should be well aware you cannot just report random numbers to the JC, surely you have reported your own stallion and the mares he bred as requested by August of the most recent year? There are also other reports that detail the names of the mares and once the reports are filed you can pull up the details on the breeders cup nomination site. So no, they don't pad the numbers in that sense. That's also how the auction sites know the lbd for the catalogs and I know you've read those before, it's not provided by the mare owner.

That being said, if you participate in one of those lifetime breeding rights "programs" it requires you to breed more than one year so that will keep the book size steady in the second year which is more marketable than saying stallion A bred 150 mares in the first year and 50 in the second. And if you think the farms don't call you looking for that second year mare you'd be wrong. I'm sure more than one breeder was disappointed in the looks of their foals but they keep coming back each time a new stallion comes along so hope springs eternal that every new one is a potential Into Mischief.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:41 am 
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I'm sure you are right. There is just such a disparity so often between mares covered and foals born. I do report mine, usually in July. Although I don't know if I will breed this year. I did not breed last year either.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Well if you look at the number of registered foals, it's always lower because mares don't get in foal, they slip, foals die, some people don't pay the stud fees and I believe if they export, there may not be a reported foal at all. ROMB will count any mare that was bred to the stallion even if she wound up going to a different stallion after not getting in foal.

It's always interesting to look at the breeding statistics, that was one reason why I wound up switching my mare one year. The stallion appeared to be one that didn't really get his mares in foal until it warmed up and after two covers I didn't want to wind up with a barren mare so switched and she got right in foal.


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