Pedigree Query

Size Matters
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Author:  Altanbarr [ Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Size Matters

Anne Peters website has a list of 2018 Kentucky stallions that includes almost every stallion's height. I was surprised by how few stallions are listed at less than 16 hands. The only stallions below 16 hands that have active runners are Speightstown, Distorted Humor, English Channel, Tale of the Cat, Northern Afleet and Birdstone. A pretty solid group of sires in spite of their short stature. There are also only a few new stallions of less than average height: Protonico, Race Day, Musketier, Grey Swallow and Mshawish. That's out of about 200 listed stallions.

Author:  mehile [ Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

Do you think this is more because they just don't send sub 16hh horses to stud because they are less desirable or because the stud owners fudge an inch or so to keep them in the 16 and over range?

I can't see an inch or two making much if any difference in racing ability.

Author:  Altanbarr [ Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

I am guessing some of these heights may be "approximate." I saw the three horses listed below up close on the same day a couple of years ago. I would have said American Pharoah was clearly the shortest of the three.

American Pharoah 2012 (Ashford, 2016) 16.2 1/2h
Tapiture 2011 (Darby Dan, 2016) 16.0 h
Cross Traffic 2009 (Spendthrift, 2015) 16.3 h

Author:  Tappiano [ Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

No chance Birdstone is that tall and I'm pretty sure War Front is shorter than listed too..

Birdstone has sired plenty of runners of considerable size and I believe that Bellamy Road's sire Concerto was more on the compact side.

Author:  Cree [ Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

The original post noted Birdstone was one of the stallions “below” 16hh.

His sire line tends to be bigger, robust horses - maybe it skipped a generation?

Author:  Tappiano [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

I wasn't clear enough on that post according to her web page he's 15.3 and there's zero chance of that..

Author:  madelyn [ Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

There is a lot of hype surrounding height and its relationship to racing ability. For every Zenyatta or Justify out there, there is at least one Northern Dancer. There is substantial evidence that some Small horses can run really well and some Massive ones also. But the rank and file racehorse filling 10 horse fields in 10 race cards across the nation has winners in the height range of 15.3 to 16.2 hands. In my experience breeding, it is desirable to breed a mare to a stallion that is more her "type" and it never hurts to have broodmares that are 16.3 or so since a 16 hand powerhouse runner stallion will likely get you something around 16.1. Rather than have mares with conformation issues that you can breed to a stallion who is better, hoping he can "correct" that I think it's better to start off with a nicely built correct mare from a good family who is well balanced and in the height range of your target foal or a little bigger. Saying a stallion is 15.1 hands or something is the kiss of death. How many people are going to bring a stick and fly to Lexington area, drive around and verify heights before booking a mare? So they either don't list the height of the stallion or they say he is 15.3.....

Author:  Joltman [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

Another example where the breed-to-race folks can afford to loose the beauty contest and get a quality runner from a Birdstone or Tale of the Cat for a lot less, because the colt/filly is going to be 'too small'. Commercial market is mercilless on some things and I think one is that magic number of 16.


Author:  Mahubah [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

There's probably some reason for being wary of "too small" in a youngster when the cause is unknown, since it could reflect something detrimental in the animal's health history or early environment. On the other side, I suspect many a knowledgeable sort has gotten away with a steal by knowing enough about pedigrees to know when a colt or filly has probably come by small size honestly (via close-up ancestors who were also on the smallish side) and, thus, not letting themselves be frightened away from a prospect that was otherwise well-made and a good mover.

Author:  Tappiano [ Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size Matters

Buyers have been conditioned into believing bigger is better....and it has nothing to do with the pedigree. Talk to a few people who sell their foals off the farm and the #1 reason why someone will pass is size. FTK July is the one sale where the physical will trump the pedigree but regardless of that, if the yearling is by a sire who has a reputation for small and he/she is small, they may be passed over.

Some sires and sire lines are known to get you small and it doesn't seem to matter how big the mare is. Candy Ride (and his sons) & Langfuhr can get you small (as can many of the Danzig line).

On the other hand, it's rare to see a stallion sired by Unbridled's Song or Tiznow who are small and when they are (Morning Line is one example but he isn't really small) it's because they take after the dam.

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